This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I concur. It is depressing. Especially the last page.
(Protip: always have people attest that what they is attest is true explicitly, they might lie otherwise. Also refer to 12th graders as kids, they really like that.)
30 pretentious books a year, for four years, and most of them don't exactly sound like fun. If a adolescent manages to read through LotR, good for them! If they read through this list, child protection should investigate.
From personal experience, reading is much easier than understanding and being able to appreciate a work. Just because I have read "The Catcher in the Rye", it does not mean that I can understand why it is world literature. (Granted, a few books are a bit more on the nose there: "all quiet on the western front" or "Uncle Tom's cabin" might also contain literary depth I did not fathom (and Kafka surely does), but at least they update your world view without you needing to know Greek symbolism or whatever.)
Also, from what I can tell, no science fiction. Fantasy is limited to Tolkien (and ancient Greece). Horror is only E.A. Poe afais. Telling a kid to read Thomas Mann is a good way to get a non-reader.
When I was a kid, the only thing which my father discouraged was mono-culture. But otherwise, I read all kinds of books: deep stuff which went a mile over my head, good stuff which was also fun to read (Asimov), trashy stuff.
Kind of tangential, but would you mind briefly expanding on what your father considered “mono-culture” and how he discouraged it? My dad’s mantra was probably “actions have consequences’ but he also had a great disdain for bandwagon-type behavior and it struck me as potentially similar.
Well, I think that mono-culture might have been reading more than three 500 page volumes of Perry Rhodan (an endless, German Scifi series of questionable literary value) in a row. I think there was just verbal disapproval, nothing coercive, I generally got to read what I wanted, and as much as I wanted. (There were some efforts to limit screen time, though.)
The idea was not so much that I should not read junk, but that I should not only read junk. I think a term which my father used to describe me was "literary garbage chute", because of my tendency to devour a wide range of books of highly varying literary standards and genres.
Thanks for fleshing that out a bit. Sounds like your dad had a pretty good approach. FWIW I asked because I’ve got a kid on the way and I’m concerned about providing an environment that encourages the consideration of alternative viewpoints. Thanks again
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link