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PaperclipPerfector  18d ago (text post)   32789 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 24, 2025

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Illegal: Clean up, do the dishes, tend to the garden

Agent: You're about to have a real bad day

If that would actually count as work when caught then I think we have an issue with the definitions being used. I had a friend over from the UK myself last year for about 2-3 weeks, he stayed in my spare bedroom and I made him clean up after himself (obviously) and he helped me with a few chores like doing dishes and vacuuming throughout because he was temporarily living there and when you're living with someone you help do the things. I made meals sometimes, he did sometimes. Sometimes I did the driving, sometimes he would. And hell I left the house at one point to get groceries and left him in charge of my niece when she was spending the night over. Because again that's all just part of being with a person living in their space.

I don't think any reasonable person would hear "you can't work on this visa" and understand it to cover basic chores like that.

There's also the anarcho-tyranny angle: If the official definition is so broad that no one would use it this way in good faith, yet they may use it this way in bad faith, the government can pick and choose violators.

Vacuuming and babysitting are both things that people often hire workers to do. It might be ok if it's incidental, but if you had a routine where he did these things, it could easily be seen that you are accepting the labor in kind in exchange for the room.

Remember that your friend is a guest and you are the host. You are not roommates from the perspective of the law, as he is simply on holiday and staying over at your house instead of a hotel. Personally, I would never ask a guest to do something like vacuum the house.

Other activities such as driving a car and making meals are likely fine as they are acceptable leisure activities to do under the visa, and the fact that you benefited from them is incidental.

Vacuuming and babysitting are both things that people often hire workers to do. It might be ok if it's incidental, but if you had a routine where he did these things, it could easily be seen that you are accepting the labor in kind in exchange for the room.

Remember that your friend is a guest and you are the host. You are not roommates from the perspective of the law, as he is simply on holiday and staying over at your house instead of a hotel. Personally, I would never ask a guest to do something like vacuum the house

I get the logic but I still believe that to be way too broad. We split basic home living tasks because he was occupying the space for the duration. When I went to visit him a few years ago I did the same there and we split the chores because I was occupying a space and leaving behind the typical household mess of dirt on a rug or dishes needing to be cleaned. This is what we see as polite, we're best friends and we don't want to impose as a guest just as much as we want to be a good host for each other.

Other activities such as driving a car and making meals are likely fine as they are acceptable leisure activities to do under the visa, and the fact that you benefited from them is incidental.

Doesn't that apply to other tasks like vacuuming or dishes? You benefit from cleaning up the space you live in so you don't have to be in a dirty space. I don't see how driving a car or making meals is any different when those are both also potential jobs people pay for.

Doesn't that apply to other tasks like vacuuming or dishes?

You have to keep in mind that the system (which includes but is not limited to the law) exists to target a particular kind of behavior, and in this case, it's importing maids without paperwork. Driving doesn't have that connotation, but if you said "gardening" or "picking fruits", that would also be eyebrow raising to the trained border agent whose entire job is to pattern match you to the bad categories.

I've been in countries where it's good advice not to disclose you have a local girlfriend over at a rental, not because sex out of wedlock is strictly speaking illegal, but because it's how local law enforcement prosecutes prostitution.

If you don't want trouble, avoid having the shape of a criminal in the eyes of bureaucracy, and doubly so when crossing borders. Otherwise you'll end up in some column about "upstanding citizen slipped on the 'I am a terrorist' button and is sent to misclicker jail".

Is that fair? No, not really, but when borders are involved you may often have no recourse because false negatives are much worse than false positives.

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