site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 17, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Fair warning to anyone inspired to pass off these images as your own:

They're watermarked. If you use AI Studio, they have a blue logo that's trivial to remove. But even so, including on the API, they're algorithmically watermarking outputs. It's almost certainly imperceptible to the naked eye, and resistant to common photo manipulation techniques after the fact.

If they're sharing with 3rd parties like Meta, expect Instagram to automatically throw up "AI generated" tags in the near future if it doesn't do so now. You can probably hedge your bets by editing or removing EXIF metadata, but don't say I didn't warn you.

The likes of Google and Meta are tolerating if not boosting the stream of clickbait slop that's being pumped onto the internet. Google lets pages from sites with millions of words blatantly copied off of chatgpt take the first result, and Scamazon is still printing and selling actual books with for actual money that contain the same. Zuccbook is putting AI slop images in my feed all the time.

These corps can nuke the vast majority of this with the most trivial of classifiers; this is even more obvious than nigerian prince scams. Yet they aren't even trying to take action. Yes I know it will be a cat and mouse game, but at least make them work for it.

watermarked

Of course we don't know what the watermark is, but if we did attacking it is usually easy. I haven't seen any hidden watermarks that can't be defeated easily by direct attack

Google lets pages from sites with millions of words blatantly copied off of chatgpt take the first result

Wait, really? I don't think I've ever seen this; certainly not in the first result. Do you possibly mean in the ads? If not, do you have an example search term?

Maybe I'm just easy to fool, but I honestly don't think I've been impacted by (text) AI slop at all. I imagine it fills out the bodies of those recipe blogs no one reads, but I've been skipping over those since they were all artisanally crafted slop. I'm reasonably confident almost all the fiction I read was written by a real person -- as far as I know, SOTA text gen still isn't able to maintain continuity over tens of thousands of words. Maybe as an assistant for editing or filling out short exchanges, but at that point I wouldn't really call it slop. (And, if it is good enough that I really can't tell, why should I care?) I'm certainly not buying bottom-of-the-barrel self help ebooks off Amazon, or whatever trendy topic people are generating books for.

Here's a few sites I personally reported to google, all of which were in the first page of the search results and often the top result. I have a log because reporting a site gives a confirmation email, but unfortunately it doesn't contain the search terms so I don't have those.

These are of course malicious sites so be careful

  • https://w asteremovalusa .com/blog/finishing-an-attic-without-a-permit/
  • https://i nnovair .com/can-i-convert-my-r22-to-r410a/
  • https://ww w.ncesc .com/can-a-person-eat-frog-eggs/
  • https://ce darparkroofingandwaterdamage .com/treehouse-cave-preserve/
  • https://pu ffy .com/blogs/best-sleep/does-the-dryer-kill-bed-bugs
  • https://m ynatureguard .com/blog/does-vicks-vaporub-keep-mosquitoes-away/
  • https://jus t-athletics .com/will-my-e-zpass-work-if-its-in-the-glove-box/
  • https://mo torandwheels .com/how-fast-tires-lose-air/
  • https://w ww.magestore .com/blog/how-do-store-alarms-work/

AI companies and governments seem far more concerned about the abuse of AI imagery/video than about text. This is an understandable stance, because people still haven't entirely recalibrated to not being able to trust clear, photorealistic imagery as we could within recent memory. It's not like photoshop hasn't been around for a while, but AI image slop is OOMs easier to mass produce.

I expect that Google, and especially OAI, are deeply concerned about being taken to task on the matter, even if I don't think they should be held liable for what users do with such broad tools, any more than I think Adobe needs to have its clay fired for political cartoons. There's been far more interest and pro-active effort in watermarking leading edge image gen as compared to mere words.

Of course we don't know what the watermark is, but if we did attacking it is usually easy. I haven't seen any hidden watermarks that can't be defeated easily by direct attack

For a sophisticated user? Certainly. But the tricks that only somewhat knowledgeable people might try, such as obvious transformations like cropping, rotating, scaling, compression or color shifting probably won't work.

If Google hashes all their images and saves that, there are perceptually lossless hashing techniques that are troublesome to remove and which resist rather major transforms. That's all over the place, particularly for CP detection. It is unclear to me, at the very least, what lengths I'd need to go through to make the risk of being caught out minimal.

I expect @DaseindustriesLtd would be the person to ask on that front.