To the extent that a particular society (such as America in the past few decades) declares it morally wrong for white people to select friends based on race, and to the extent that this declaration has any merit, it is because racial division is an area prone to create political divisions and bloody war. So there can be a legitimate rationale for encouraging intermarriage and interracial friendship in a particular society in order to integrate the two groups and create ethnogenesis and create one people. Of course it may also be legitimate to have some sort of millet system and manage racial friction that way. In the Christian moral tradition there is no obligation to be race blind in choosing friends or lover. Also even modern American morality is very confused on this question because it is OK for black people to prefer friendships with other blacks, universities even encourage this through heavily recruiting black kids into ethnic houses, but it is very taboo for white people to do the same. So there really is no society that holds Premise 1 as a basic moral principle.
So even in the particular case where a state is encouraging cross-racial friendships for ethnogensis, there is no reason to extend this to other "immutable" characteristics. There is no basic division based on "height" or being left-handed that causes terrible societal strife and bloodshed. And needless to say, race is nothing like sex, is an entirely different phenomena, comparing apples to puppies, so it is a complete non sequitur to say "if we don't believe in racial sorting we shouldn't believe in sex sorting."
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Premise 1 and 2 are false.
To the extent that a particular society (such as America in the past few decades) declares it morally wrong for white people to select friends based on race, and to the extent that this declaration has any merit, it is because racial division is an area prone to create political divisions and bloody war. So there can be a legitimate rationale for encouraging intermarriage and interracial friendship in a particular society in order to integrate the two groups and create ethnogenesis and create one people. Of course it may also be legitimate to have some sort of millet system and manage racial friction that way. In the Christian moral tradition there is no obligation to be race blind in choosing friends or lover. Also even modern American morality is very confused on this question because it is OK for black people to prefer friendships with other blacks, universities even encourage this through heavily recruiting black kids into ethnic houses, but it is very taboo for white people to do the same. So there really is no society that holds Premise 1 as a basic moral principle.
So even in the particular case where a state is encouraging cross-racial friendships for ethnogensis, there is no reason to extend this to other "immutable" characteristics. There is no basic division based on "height" or being left-handed that causes terrible societal strife and bloodshed. And needless to say, race is nothing like sex, is an entirely different phenomena, comparing apples to puppies, so it is a complete non sequitur to say "if we don't believe in racial sorting we shouldn't believe in sex sorting."
More options
Context Copy link