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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   34891 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 3, 2025

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That's like saying because the United States objected to nuclear weapons in Cuba, they logically will blockade every country in the world until nuclear weapons are removed from them.

No, not at all. It would only work this way if the US were expanding their borders in the process (as Russia did with Crimea and wants to do with the four oblasts). Because when you expand your border they actually get closer from the threat, which justifies another war where you expand them further.

If Russia is so terrified with having its territory invaded, then the first step should be not to annex Crimea and Mariupol, because with their coast they provide a very sweet invasion spot, eg from Turkey.

if the US were expanding their borders in the process

Oh okay. So if Russia said "hey we're not expanding our borders, we're turning these oblasts into...Legally Distinct From Russia, er, Novorossiya" that would fly with you? Regime change is fine as long as border change isn't? Because the United States attempted regime change in Cuba, and took direct military action against it (that's what a blockade is). And in fact in a lot of places. And I am not convinced that couping people is Good and Friendly behavior.

Regime change is fine as long as border change isn't?

It's not about being fine or not, it's about disproving the claim that Russia is only interested in protecting itself against NATO

Well, that's not my claim and not what I think. But to the extent that they are interested in protecting themselves against NATO (and they are) you can't brush off flipping Ukraine to Team NATO as no big deal.

Yes it can because:

  1. it is not important for Russia: it's just an excuse (once again, if they felt threatened they just increased the threat)

  2. It's not important for NATO, given that the west has never really promised anything to Ukraine.

Therefore it seems to me you all say it is "important", but if it's neither important for Russia (their policy proves it) nor for NATO, I don't really think it can be important "per se"

In what world does Russia's policy of

  1. Strenuously insisting for years that Ukraine not join NATO
  2. Surrounding Ukraine with a massive army and sending a list of demands that includes "no joining NATO" and then finally
  3. Attacking Ukraine before it can benefit from NATO protections

Come around to prove that Russia doesn't find "Ukraine not joining NATO" important?

In a world where Russia lies, probably

Okay, but I don't just get my info from Russia, here – you can go look up the memos where Bill Burns (former CIA director) talks about how Ukraine-into-NATO is a bright red line for Russia. Do you think he's lying too?

Russia's strategy up until the 2014 revolution was not expanding their borders (although Kiev was Russia from 1686 to 1991!), but in exercising soft power and diplomacy in Ukraine. They lost the soft war, so had to settle for a hard one.

They lost the soft war, so had to settle for a hard one.

No they "had to" nothing. The best way to ensure security is to build trust with your neighboors and not to sponsor corrupted autocratic governments

The US and Europe sponsored color revolutions which brought "corrupted autocratic governments" to power in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014.

No those governments weren't autocratic given that the power has swiftly switched hands. Sure they were and are still corrupt, but the corruption level is continuously decreasing since those revolutions.

would you consider the current government in Ukraine to be "corrupted autocratic governments"?

No

Ding ding ding ding, correct!

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