This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If we stopped paying debts, other countries do have options. They might not lead to a net benefit, but to pretend there are no other options other than war is nonsense. I realize you didn't explicitly say this, but you did suggest it. War or other force is on the table when practical of course (e.g. France occupying the Ruhr).
First, other countries might not even need to do anything at all. The direct self-consequences of telling other countries to suck it is the decline in your own trust, and those other parties can occasionally, roughly, even benefit - it's not a total zero-sum trust system, but other countries will look better in comparison which provides at least some offset to the explicit loss of future repayment. Even though the US is the world default fiat currency this isn't eternally true and doesn't live in a vacuum, other currencies could still take on some of this burden. These benefits are less explicitly tangible but that is not to say they do not exist, including via bond yield returns on secondary markets as well as the jilted country being able to issue their own new bonds at better relative rates. The exact economics are complicated and not guaranteed, I will grant you.
Finally, there IS a long history of alternative methods, the international equivalent of hiring the repo man. US companies own assets worldwide and it's entirely plausible that they could have their assets, IP, and other contract deals repossessed/modified/nullified commensurate with the unpaid amount. Yes, this might result in tit-for-tat so it's not a perfect solution, but to say their only alternative is a literal invasion is incredibly naive.
More options
Context Copy link