site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Regarding the Southport killing, do you know the details? Because it is sick. This is not something that would be forgotten, for the sheer brutality if nothing else.

But, yeah, it's hard to predict what will go viral. The current Crime of the Century involved the death of a violent felon who was high on Fent and Meth at the time of his death.

I don't know the details, but I doubt anything there would make it Crime of the Century material. Maybe if there was a video, it would be. The 2020 events were, I assume, largely triggered by the existence of a video. If there had not been a video, it would probably have been little remarked on.

That's part of my point, really. It's not so much the violent events themselves that make people remember them, unless it's something really unprecedented like 9/11 (I mean unprecedented in the "using planes to collapse skyscrapers" sense, not in the death toll sense, since of course plenty of other events have had higher death tolls). It's other things like videos, manifestos, lurid appeal of the mental illness of the perpetrators, or perhaps a politically divisive motivation like in the case of Luigi Mangione (and even he is being forgotten now after having had a brief few weeks of fame). And even 9/11 would have been much less shocking to the masses without all the videos. Even the Las Vegas shooter is probably better remembered nowadays than Dylan Roof is, despite having had no political motive as far as we know, and it's not just because he killed more people, it's because of the gruesomely cinematic way in which he did it. Breivik would be much more remembered nowadays if he had livestreamed his video like the New Zealand shooter (and I don't even remember the New Zealand shooter's name, which is more evidence for my point) or if he had written an interesting manifesto. But even then it wouldn't really be Crime of the Century material, probably.

The threshold to achieve the Crime of the Century is really high. You might have to do something like kill a bunch of rich people or politicians while livestreaming it, and write a really interesting manifesto, in order to actually get there.