This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Well...they are part of a culture which, as Freddie de Boer has pointed out, assumes that the right answer is obvious (see point 6) and that the majority already agrees with them (here I'm thinking of his old "We Are All Already Decided" from https://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/04/29/bingo-cards-go-both-ways/ ...which has been deleted and excluded from archive.org BUT I HAVE THE LINK GUYS :D). ISTM even just the first assumption ("the right answer is obvious") would lead its adherents to assume that most people of course agree with them, that there's no way very many people could actually disagree, that the few who do disagree are so evil as to be incomprehensible--so why bother to try?--and so small in number as to be safely ignored. (And can be dismissed as "a basket of deplorables." I mean. I'm a deplorable myself but I do wince in sympathetic understanding of the thought process that led her to that statement.)
But also I'd point out that "weak in theory of mind" is traditionally a core symptom of specifically autism, not "generally lacking neurological development."
"External locus of control as a[nother] possible cause of weak theory of mind"? Not something I've heard of before but an interesting hypothesis.
Can you think of an example of a person who has recognized the need to develop a coherent theory of mind, but seems to have been unable to as a result of external locus of control? (You mentioned Scott; can you think of a Scott post that exemplifies this? Here I saw his handling of the NYT thing as evidence of especially good ToM / social skill...) I'm having a vague memory of someone giving an example that sounds similar (years ago elsewhere on the internet), but in that case I believe the person in the example had NVLD (lower nonverbal than verbal IQ, autism-adjacent) rather than external locus of control.
More options
Context Copy link