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Absolutely! But unfortunately billions don't have the time/energy/mental fortitude to truly cultivate these moral virtues, as our environments push us to vice. That's part of what I'd hope changes.
Not sure if you've seen the videos, but when monks self-immolate they light themselves on fire then sit there in a lotus position as they slowly burn to death. I fail to see how that's comparable to suicide or fighting in a battle. The self-control and focus required to not move a muscle or make a sound as you burn to death is almost superhuman in my view.
So do you think enlightenment or equanimity is not worth pursuing at all? That's a different conversation. Also to me the calculus changes if you can not just do it yourself but have thousands of others all pursuing equanimity with you. Why would that preclude understand or action?
"And it is a very personal endeavor, knowing that superhuman AGI has explored the 500 dimensional qualia space of baseline human minds isn't much good if you can't do it yourself!"
I understand if you didn't comb over this with a fine toothed comb - it is quite a long screed hah.
They are, but only because of what they mean for one's understanding and action generally. They aren't worth pursuing on their own, in the same way that 'orgasm' isn't worth pursuing on its own, outside the context of anything else. (as said in op "Not that said 'states', in particular ones buddhism describes, aren't interesting")
Ah, that is difficult - but that power should be used in more complex ways than 'a billion normies being neuralinked into simulated self-immolating without actually dying'.
Well, it's good for the AGI. And if the AGI is morally important and is innately capable of better states than the human, isn't it better to focus on AGI welfare/AGI overmen (dep. on christian or nietzchean) than the equivalent for humans?
I'm honestly not quite sure what you're getting at here, could you unpack what you mean by 'one's understanding and action generally'? Are you saying that outside of the context of a flawed world equanimity and enlightenment are pointless?
Absolutely agreed! Part of what I was trying to do in this post is evoke the idea that there will be millions of different states people are exploring, the whole Buddhist thing is just one example.
Eh, I'm not a harsh utilitarian so I'm gonna say no. Human flourishing will always be important to me even if AGI is a bajillion times better at 'flourishing' than we are.
You have to ask the question of what a 'mental state' or equinamity really is, what is happening, what is worth doing. Let's say you made a human enlightened by, uh, hacking all their neurons out, and replacing them with the neurons of a squirrel that was enlightened. Maybe something was lost. Now let's say that the person became enlightened, in a sense, but a very minimal sense - they're precisely as enlightened as the enlightened squirrel is, and then carry on with their netflix-watching the next day. There's something confused here, surely? What if the 100iq-joe-the-janitor really does become as enlightened as the Buddha was - but still retains their desire for netflix, and continues to watch it and eat burgers and work as a janitor? I'm saying outside the context of that enlightenment relating to other parts of their life, it's basically meaningless. So - what is being enlightened, what does that mean, what more is being understood, and is anything being understood if said understanding is never used? And then - if these people are just cavorting in simulacra VR garden land for eternity, is enlightenment as valuable or meaningful there as it is in a complex world with significant demands and willed action? Compare to the enlightened rabbit vs human (or a pet rabbit vs wild rabbit!)
Right, but the 'non-self' and 'emptiness' and 'dependent origination' bits should indicate - there isn't anything to being human, aside from all the specific aspects and experiences and dependencies. What is there to humans, at all, that the AGI doesn't have? What's the difference? Not that there aren't any, but it's probably worth checking, and just saying the word 'human' doesn't necessarily mean anything. (and in the sense of "important to me" - i mean, it could just as well be true that 'watching netflix and playing overwatch' would be more important to you than 'universal basic equinamity'. But acting on that would be bad, because then nobody would be enlightened. Similarly, if your desires - at least as you describe them - are wrong, then you should simply act differently. And then those actions are, in retrospect, your desires. Desires in this sense do not exist, then, in a proper sense, they're just descriptions of specific ways one understands and acts)
I'm willing to say that enlightenment as I understand it is a sort of special state of equanimity, and commit to the idea that it's just as valuable now as it would be in an extremely wealthy society. Sure you aren't under significant demands, but you also have to resist intense luxury and as you say, VR garden lands. That would take a large amount of willpower itself.
I don't think we have anywhere near the understanding of these mental states to make these sorts of judgements. Sure right now the best we can do is discuss enlightenment in terms of 'non-being' etc etc, but eventually I believe we will have a better understanding of how to enter + exit these states and be able to communicate their qualities with much more fidelity.
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