This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
In the Politico link, I see:
Karl Dresch August 4, 2021 Parading, demonstrating or picketing in a Capitol building No Six months incarceration; $1,000 fine 6 months (time served)
That means, this person served 6 months in prison by August 4, i.e. out of 7 months between Jan 6 and Aug 4, spent at least 6 in jail. I am not sure what was the bail status and how exactly it happened, but it seems to me that the situation is pretty similar to being held without bail for 6 months. As we see, the charge is "parading", i.e. in non-lawyer-speak, wandering about. So, I am not sure how it plays out against DC Court decision, but I see that we have at least one person that spent behind bars almost all the time until sentencing, and there's no charge above what essentially is "walking around". Then we also have:
Michael Curzio July 12, 2021 Parading, demonstrating or picketing in a Capitol building No Six months incarceration (time served) 6 months (time served) N/A N/A N/A Carl Nichols
Again, the charge is "parading", 6 months, time served, but on July 12. There's no way for this person to server 6 months by July 12 unless they actually spent all the time between being apprehended soon after Jan 6, and July 12, behind bars. Again, I have no idea how it plays against other court decisions, I just am looking at the first page of the link you provided.
This is a solid response. You took the time to examine a resource I linked to but used it in a way I didn't consider by unearthing past cases. You are absolutely correct about both Karl Dresch and Michael Curzio, they were indeed held without bond for wandering in.
Dresch is someone whose case I wrote about a while back but I completely forgot about it. That his release was unconditionally denied was not surprising, the guy had "escape from law enforcement" felonies and he was twice caught with guns he wasn't supposed to have.
Curzio was not accused of any violence, the government complains that he "cursed" at officers. What likely sunk him is that he was convicted of attempted 1st degree murder in Florida and was released in early 2019 after 8 years behind bars. It definitely reflects poorly on his decision-making ability that he travels from Florida to DC to be on the frontlines of a riot just a couple of years after getting out of prison.
But the reasons why both were denied release are orthogonal to @anti_dan 's original claim. anti_dan can squarely make this claim about both cases and I would have no objections.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link