site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 24, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

20
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

In my recollection it's been discussed on the Motte before but not nearly as much as I've seen in it in /r/all. Literally any post with a penis or even mentioning foreskin would devolve into male circumcision debate and I remember it at least ten separate times in random threads. The people invested in caring about it care about it is so much that I would never want my kid to be circumcised. I remember watching a Penn and Teller Bullshit episode about circumcision and there was this guy who was so obsessed with getting his lost foreskin back that he attached weights around his penis to create new foreskin. If it is affecting people that much from the trauma or loss of potential sensation or just becoming obsessed with wanting that part of their body back I'd never do it to my kid because I would not want him on Reddit going into a /r/funny post showing two different mushrooms and comparing them to uncircumcised/circumcised penises and feeling the need to lay out seven paragraphs with ten citations about how evil circumcision is. Whatever health benefits the WHO gives or even the prevention of a future mentioned below is not worth my kid growing up to make a post like that on /r/funny.

But the best argument in favor that I have is this: I used to listen to Loveline and the amounts of calls they would get from men who had Phimosis or tearing during sex of their foreskin and had to have an adult circumcision were at least biweekly. I also remember the kid in Nip/Tuck who was uncircumcised and girls made fun of him and his parents wouldn't let him get circumcised, so he tried to circumcise himself in the bathroom with his dad's scalpel. Though that one probably is vanishingly rare in real life.