This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I disagree with this in the strongest possible terms. The flagellate was more than a spectacle of suffering. The flagellate truly confessed and remembered his sin before his self-punishment. There’s psychological research to support both this practice and the medieval “mechanical” treatment of repentance generally. When a memory is reactivated (retrieved) it becomes labile (malleable) immediately and for up to six hours, in which period the valence and instinctual response regarding the memory can be modified. Provided that the flagellate has reactivated the memory of his commission of sin before his punishment, this would act as powerful counterconditioning which will (unconsciously) make him averse to the sin in the future (this may take a month to fully occur neurologically). This has been studied for instance in respect to alcoholism: “Disruption of relapse to alcohol seeking by aversive counterconditioning following memory retrieval”, “Long-term behavioural rewriting of maladaptive drinking memories via reconsolidation-update mechanisms”, etc. (The opposite can occur as well, which supports the mechanical way that gratitude was “practiced” (reactivating prosocial cues before the enjoyment of, say, a succulent Chinese meal)). If there were flagellates in California, perhaps things would be different.
Let us consider the California Question with special attention to what our Psalmists have to say —
The archetypical LA mindset is characterized by distraction and consumerism. It is not characterized by the recognition or repentance of sins (errors); it’s questionable whether the local leaders even believe in those. The fire is the Divine Mandate, contrary to the OP, at least symbolically speaking. The fire is “improbable but longterm-certain threat that has gone unrecognized”, and “failure to plan longterm”, and “failure to elect strong-minded leaders who care”, and then “failure to prioritize changing politicians”, which involves “failure to prioritize changing culture”, and descending to the relevant individuals with wealth and time there is “failure to sacrifice status in order to grow the right culture”, reaching to those who fretted figure and latte and contract and sideshow more than than what is actually Good. A ton of innocent people are going to suffer from this, too, which makes their sins so much worse.
Someone who whips themselves for religious reasons is a flagellant. Flagellates are micro-organisms with whip-like tails.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link