This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Right, and if you have 350 democratic congresspeople in your basement, "If the left imagines they can govern by force and without the consent of the opposition, why should the right not adopt a similar stance" might mean something.
But this is a question of 'was it cool or not for desantis to charge a few people with meaningless crimes', that isn't 'crushing' the left or 'governing by force', it's just a random minor issue. Same for the gun thing, a few people go to prison for dumb reasons, people can't own cool guns, that sucks, but doesn't really have any long-term impact. The right isn't "on the chopping block", legally, if a few gun owners go to prison sometimes - i mean, is the left "on the chopping block" because people go to prison for weed and LSD sometimes? It sucks, but it's quite minor, hardly a pogrom or a work camp.
So what's the complaint? Just more bodies ground down under the wheels of society.
Is this anything more than an abstracted "Mommy he hit me back!!"?
I'm sure it sucks for these men and their families that they're getting railroaded for political purposes. It also sucks that they were tricked into committing technical crimes by people purporting to support their civil rights. They don't deserve either. Not the Dems who set them up as stooges and martyrs, and not the Reps who are going to take the bait.
Is there any reason DeSantis should not play hardball? Are his opponents going to stop doing the same thing? It's ok to shoot unarmed female election protesters on one side of the aisle, but not arrest people on a technicality for voting wrong? Let's all punch "nazis", but not enforce tendentious voting laws? The right still remembers Vicky Weaver, so "but how would you feel if the ATF snagged you on a technicality" is a bit real. They'd feel like the federal government is on a pogrom against them already, and the only thing standing between them and potentially getting murdered in their own home by federal agencies is the coin-flip chance they can get their guy into office who will redirect law enforcement against the opposition for four years. Which, ironically, is probably exactly what these poor schmucks were thinking when they voted.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link