site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 23, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

3
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Absolutely none of the usual reasons for opposing the death penalty even begin to make sense for these guys. People worry about sentencing someone that's wrong accused to death - did they get it wrong in these examples?

This is just silly. The whole reason people justify a blanket principle of abolitionism grounds that instances of wrongful execution occur is because it's always going to be too fraught and stupid to have an 'oh well these guys are some extra special category of really definitely guilty' category.

that preteen girl why their child's life wasn't every bit as sacred as the victims of Bowers and Roof

It was, of course, but the whole reason this has happened in this ad hoc and stupid way is precisely because of people like you whining 'how could you let that one off the hook!', so they just didn't want the political fallout of commuting the most high profile and emotive cases. I'm afraid the voters are to blame, again - see the reaction to the commutation of the sentence of that judge. I think in his heart Biden probably wanted to pardon Roof but his political advisors were worried about the fallout for the Democratic brand more broadly.

How many people, knowing that information, would say that it's important for the President to spare these guys from execution?

As above, the point isn't about them specifically - it's that making ad hoc exceptions to the exercise of a principle would have been dumb, and it continues to be dumb about Roof (though I don't blame Biden too much for not following it all the way through in light of the whiners).

There is no coalition that I have more sincere contempt for than people that spend their lives trying to avoid the execution of men like Kadamovas

If anything I think the reverse. If one has a principle that the death penalty is wrong, it would be - and is - a bit cowardly not to extend that even to the most contemptible criminals, otherwise what kind of principle is it? One has to respect people who bite unpopular bullets in order to remain morally consistent.