This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I took a while to respond to this because I needed time to think it over. You raise some good points, and I don't have all the answers.
There was probably a good mix of both of those sorts as academics in the 1960s. As well as normal people who just liked the job- it was a lot easier to become a professor back then. The universities were massively expanding with all the baby boomers, especially in America.
what I think happened was that, over time, some tactics just worked better than others. Nobody really pays attention to a professor writing papers about socialism. Even if it's very persuasive, we just ignore it. But it's hard to ignore a group of activists chanting slogans at you, and even harder when it's your boss ordering you to follow new policies to be more woke.
I don't think it's just a funding issue, because academia is famously low-paying. And many of the activist groups don't pay at all. In fact, many universities outright ignore areas that could be well funded (like military history or psychometrics) because it goes against their leftist ideology. You see the same thing in movie and game studios- they push for woke stuff despite it completely tanking their profits, over and over again.
It's also worth noting that the left was significantly more violent in the past, especially in the late 60s and 70s. This was a time of things like the Weather Underground planting bombs, environmental groups destroying bulldozers, and "the Troubles" in Northern Ireland. (edit- and the Black Panthers/Black Liberation Army- probably the best example since they were explicitly Marxist while also committing many acts of violence) None of those groups were related, but they seem to follow the same playback of student discussion group -> unreasonable political demands -> resort to force to get what you want. I think nowadays those groups have realized that other forms of force work better than naked violence, but the same playbook is there, looking awfully similar to the Russian Revolution.
It's sort of a joke by now that the environmental groups are usually also socialist. "The watermelon party, green on the outside and red inside" and such. They talk about environmentalism mostly, but if you ask them their economic views they will usually admit to being socialist, at least in their ideal world. And I feel like pretty much all the leftist groups are the same- regardless of their pet policy, they're also mostly socialists or communists.
More options
Context Copy link