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Discernment, Taste, and Snobbery/Counter-Snobbery (Or, why can't Scott see the ways in which McMansions are bad, why do people care that Laufey's music isn't jazz, and are these two phenomena related?)

Epistemic Status: Not a cohesive theory of community art perception/criticism, just speculation that two or more things are related

For those who haven't seen it, Scott posted his latest piece on architecture, last night, a review of Tom Wolfe's "From Bauhaus To Our House.". The comments are pretty similar to past comments. I'm less interested in the question of why people do or don't like modern architecture (there's a lot of variation in quality, and tastes vary - of course it's polarizing) than the variation in discernment over McMansions, a type of architecture defined by qualities that are a) bad and b) to me, fall in to the category of "once you see it, you can't unsee it."

For our purposes, I'll use the guide from McMansion Hell (https://mcmansionhell.com/post/149284377161/mansionvsmcmansion, https://mcmansionhell.com/post/149563260641/mcmansions-101-mansion-vs-mcmansion-part-2), which includes simple heuristics like Relationship to the Landscape: Often, a New Traditional mansion carefully considers its environment and is built to accentuate, rather than dominate it. A McMansion is out of scale with its landscape or lot, often too big for a tiny lot. and Architectural and Stylistic Integrity: The best New Traditional houses are those who are virtually indistinguishable from the styles they represent. McMansions tend to be either a chaotic mix of individual styles, or a poorly done imitation of a previous style. This house in Texas invokes four separate styles: the Gothic (the steep angle of the gables), Craftsman (the overhanging eaves with braces), French (the use of stone and arched 2nd story windows), and Tudor Revival (the EIFS half-timbering above the garage), each poorly rendered in a busy combination of EIFS coupled with stone and brick veneers. (Follow the links for annotated photos.)

These criteria are really heuristics - part two includes a house that could go either way, with arguments on each side - but they aren't "rocket surgery" to apply, it's just a matter of discernment; why can't everyone learn to apply the criteria, whether or not they share the opinion that McMansions are bad architecture? The criteria of mixing styles can require more consideration than the others - it takes some scrutiny to determine if stylistic elements were mixed in a thoughtful manner - and whether or not the styles are complementary is a matter of taste, but most of it is pretty simple.

[Edit 1: I was thinking of this at the time, but too lazy to go back to the ACX post to incorporate it - this is similar to how an artist friend of Scott's discribed how she identified an AI-generated image as AI art and why she disliked it. Once you see it, can you unsee it? Does it change how much you enjoy the image?]

This reminded me of a video jazz musician and YouTuber Adam Neely made on the question of whether Laufey's music is within the jazz genre. TL;DW, no, he puts her alongside 1950s pop that borrowed from the same set of musical styles as jazz of the period, but applied those stylistic elements to pop songs, rather than a musical form defined more by improvisation (especially group improvisation) than aesthetic. One clip used in the video is someone asking why it matters if jazz musicians don't recognize Laufey's music as jazz - good point; why are we asking the question, in the first place? My speculation is that Laufey's fans want her music to be considered jazz, not pop that has stylistic elements in common with jazz, because jazz has cultural cachet and drawing a distinction between jazz and superficially similar pop music would be perceived as gatekeeping or snobbery. In light of the precedent of 1950s pop, this is rather silly - jazz musicians aren't turning their noses up at Sinatra and Bennett - but, in addition to being denied the cachet associated with jazz appreciation, I can imagine that being told you lack the discernment to tell jazz from non-jazz feels like being told you lack taste.

Discernment and taste are distinct phenomena; if Scott tells me that he agrees with the criteria for distinguishing McMansions from other architecture, we establish inter-rater reliability for this, but he disagrees that they're bad design, I'll accept that he is capable of discerning the style, while declaring our tastes to be different. But Scott writes that architecture buffs tell him about superior modern architecture he might like and he can't discern the difference. To what extent is the discussion of architecture unproductive because people are conflating discernment and taste?

If you can't discern the difference between two things and someone else says that they have strong opinions over their respective quality, do you question your discernment or their taste? In the absence of a prior that you need to cultivate your abilities of discernment, I would speculate that you are more likely to question the other person's taste and are liable to come to the conclusion that their discernment is arbitrary, from which it follows that they're engaging in snobbery. Counter-Snobbery would be to reject the "arbitrary" distinction or, if conceding that there is a distinction, embrace the supposed "lesser" of the two things.

If you can't discern the difference between two things and someone else says that they have strong opinions over their respective quality... what do YOU do?

[Edit 2: While this was in the mod queue, Scott published a new post on theories of taste. Some of the commenters are commenting along the lines of a causal relationship between developing abilities of discernment with changes in taste, without using those terms. Interestingly, neither Scott nor a commenter went back to that section of the AI art post, even though the new post begins "Recently we’ve gotten into discussions about artistic taste (see comments to AI Art Turing Test..."]

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Having skimmed the Neely video again, he references criteria from Ken Burns' documentary that was purposefully narrow, so as to exclude fusion: swung rhythms, blues influence, and improvisation. Neely gives examples that would generally be regarded as jazz, but fail the improvisation criteria (a through-composed Ellington performance), or meet the criteria, but wouldn't generally be regarded as jazz (a hip-hop performance), but accepts it as an approximation for what distinguishes "mid-century pop" and Laufey's reinvention thereof from jazz as musical forms. I think this is reasonable.

So Neely, or I, or anyone from our generation doesn't understand why Laufey has to be jazz. People born between 1981 and 1995 aren't supposed to view genres as quality indicators. Laufey being jazz does not mean that Laufey is good. Kenny G might not be jazz, but if he is, he still sucks. But there's also a bit of bullshit to this argument. Jazz is difficult. For most people, Dixieland conjures up images of old cartoons, and the big band era brings to mind senior citizens. Prewar jazz has been reified to a degree that makes appreciation among the youth difficult if only due to its cultural connotations. Postwar jazz is too esoteric. It was created at a time when it was moving further away from mainstream musical sensibilities and toward the avant garde. Even at its most accessible, it involves harmonic structures that are quite different from most contemporary pop music, and the centerpiece is long improvisations that require close listening to fully appreciate.

(In)Accessibility takes multiple forms - almost all jazz is tonal music played with relatively soft timbres on instruments selected for consonance with each other, so a random jazz song is more likely to be inoffensive to the ear than a random song from a genre that achieves its "edginess" by way of harsh timbres and unsubtle dissonance. Anyone who can work with background music can let "Bright Size Life" be that music (and, if a reader has never heard that album, it's voir doir for Rov_Scam calling Metheny as an expert witness, as well as the best recording of the short-lived, "tortured artist" virtuoso bassist Jaco Pastorius, playing a bass guitar modified to be fretless, prior to this being commonly accepted as a valid substitute for acoustic upright bass*) - identifying the ways in which "Bright Size Life" was innovative requires prior knowledge of its context, but does "accessibility" mean "low barrier to enjoyment" or "low barrier to intellectually appreciating at the same level as an aficionado?"

*A handful of esteemed bassists had toured and occasionally recorded with bass guitars, primarily for convenience, but Pastorius was a pioneer in using bass guitars as a primarily creative choice.

When I said that jazz was difficult, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't easy on the ears. It's difficult in the sense that it's hard for someone accustomed to pop music to appreciate, especially if they don't have any musical training. One common complaint I've heard from friends who listen to rock and try to get into jazz is that they like the part at the beginning where everyone plays together, but they get bored throughout the endless soloing. When I tell them that the solos are more or less the whole point (not entirely true, but you get my drift), they give me an odd look. If you're used to structured music with to-the-point melodies and solos that don't go on for more than 8 bars (giving you a taste of possible variation but not getting off track), it's understandable why someone blowing out 5 choruses followed by another guy doing the same thing may seem tiresome. I don't think it's a coincidence that people who already like jam bands tend to also like jazz.

As for Bright Size Life, I bought that album on vinyl at a used record shop back in the 2000s and when I took it home to play I noticed that someone had stashed ripped out pages from a porn magazine in the sleeve. I decided to hang on to them as an investment and they're still there to this day. And how can you say that this is Jaco's best work and not his solo album? It's obviously very good, but he's clearly a sideman here and doesn't get to show his full potential. Pretty much every track on that Jaco Pastorius exhibits a new possibility for what the bass guitar can be, particularly "Portrait of Tracy". And "Opus Pocus" is probably the only example in recorded music of menacing-sounding steel drums.

When I said that jazz was difficult, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't easy on the ears. It's difficult in the sense that it's hard for someone accustomed to pop music to appreciate, especially if they don't have any musical training.

If it's easy on the ears, you can expose yourself to it until you passively begin to appreciate it on an unconscious level or find something that gives you a musical foothold. (I disliked violin-centric music until I heard this Julia Fischer performance of the Third Movement of the Brahms Concerto in D - it turns out that the things I disliked about a lot of violin performances weren't universal.)

And how can you say that this is Jaco's best work and not his solo album? It's obviously very good, but he's clearly a sideman here and doesn't get to show his full potential. Pretty much every track on that Jaco Pastorius exhibits a new possibility for what the bass guitar can be, particularly "Portrait of Tracy". And "Opus Pocus" is probably the only example in recorded music of menacing-sounding steel drums.

His showcase album is the best recording of him showcasing his superior potential to innovate; "Bright Size Life" is the best example of him playing superior jazz bass.