This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I assume this was supposed to be David McGee.
I'm missing a connection here. How are McGee or Kent connected to Greenberg? How did they become aware of a secret investigation into Matt Gaetz that they could use as leverage? Is the implication that Greenberg was running a honeypot on behalf of the DoJ, and McGee was aware of it from his previous job? Did McGee even work in a position where he would be aware of a secret investigation?
How would the FBI leak an investigation being conducted by the DoJ? Isn't it more likely that someone in the DoJ found out about what the FBI was about to do with Don Gaetz (whether through official or back channels), and the DoJ leaked it instead to prevent the FBI and Gaetz from getting a wire recording of their attempted blackmail?
Thanks! I kept making that mistake for some reason and I fixed it.
I don't know of any connection between Greenberg and McGee or Kent. I don't know how McGee or Kent became aware of the DOJ investigation, but they were the people implicated in the blackmail scheme to get Don Gaetz to give them $25,000,000 to allegedly rescue the declared dead Bob Levinson. Stephen Alford was the person who allegedly initially contacted Don Gaetz to make the blackmail offer and directed him to David McGee. There is no reason to think McGee would need to be working on a secret investigation to become aware of it from his previous job, he could have simply been told by someone else.
The implication I'm making is that Greenberg's behavior looks like a honeypot operation: he was recruiting underage women, giving them fraudulent real FL ids he has access to because of his "public service," he's paying them with money no one is quite sure where it all came from, and he's paying these girls to have sex with rich and politically connected people in central Florida which he appeared to instigate friendships with. Joel Greenberg can't help himself but be a ridiculous criminal who is sloppy and gets caught.
The FBI could leak details to the NYT about an investigation they at the very least became aware of when Don Gaetz showed up at a local FBI office and told them he was being blackmailed even if we're going to pretend the FBI and DOJ don't work hand-in-glove. I'm not implying the FBI is the one who made the leak. There are all sorts of narratives one could string together with known facts and they would be supported. What's interesting is no one seems particularly interested in all these loose threads; there is a startling lack of interest in tying any of them up and instead they want to use it to attack and smear Matt Gaetz. The "loose threads" are Stephen Alford and Joel Greenberg who are both going to prison on plea deals.
I'm not trying to make any particular argument, really. I just find the whole story to be interesting and thought others may as well.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link