This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It is begging the question to assume there is a wise class of non narcisist experts and Trump with his narcicism and lack of critical thinking stinks up the show.
Take Ezra Klein the guy you cite.
He is a very woke individual who excuses antiwhite racism and he and his site favors a caste and massive double standards.
So, I am not going to take very seriously his hatred of Trump, and your view of Trump being against expertise when on various issues Klein's views and those similiar to him are far away from what an actual competent, and objective leader would follow. https://www.vox.com/technology/2018/8/8/17661368/sarah-jeong-twitter-new-york-times-andrew-sullivan https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/3/17648566/sarah-jeong-new-york-times-twitter-andrew-sullivan
You are applying an uncharitable mischaracterization of Trump when you present him as someone who opposes expertise, because the deep state, people like Ezra Klein, and many partisan leftists and others promoting groupthink of powerful factions, are not actual experts on various issues. Same applies with narcissism, when part of the complaint with Trump is that he has been willing to be critical of agendas that people that are greater narcissists like Klein who supports enormous group narcicism would approve. Well not really that much, but even the little deviation is part of the outrage. Trump actually goes too far along with the deep state agendas even if he deviates more than many others would in his position.
Whether it is invading the world in disastrous wars, mass migration policies, enforcing anti white cultural agenda, or the idea that Trump's previous term would definetly cause a recession. In many issues, the conventional "wisdom" of people who marched on institutions, captured them and then promote their agenda as if it is the mandate of heavens, is not what a competent, objective and ethical leader ought to do. JOften quite the opposite. Additionally such agendas are often remarkably one sided and in line with group narcissism or the narcissistic tendencies of the politician who wants to gain power even if he sells out the common good over getting the support of donors (which is a much greater problem with Trump too than the fake or even any real quotes of the outrage of the week) or of extreme far left ideologues.
There has been a right wing derangement syndrome pushed in the media with an explosion of use of racism, white supremacism, and other terms. The same media were biased and bad in the same direction before but this explosion of fake news which predated Trump is the problem and what leads to polarization. These factors are the more dominant elements of Trump hatred, and figures that stand against the faction who has this ideology have been hated before (like Buchanan) and will be hated after Trump.
For that manner, Nixon, Reagan and Bush were also hated for being too right wing, even though all of them compromised perhaps even more than Trump too with the cultural left agenda.
What is at play is extreme zealotry that is much stronger than say the fanaticism of most Christians. A religion, or a cult of presumption of science. This ideology of presuming scientific understanding of which scientific Marxism was one of its fruits, has a shared outlook on the world, is extremely conformist, and strongly overreacts and misjudges both its own irrational nature, and the nature of those who don't share their outlook. Rather than defying expertise, the real problem is "heresy" from an irrational faction that is all too convinced without sufficiently examining its own presumed wisdom. Add to that people who are more self aware but are pushing for propagandistic purposes this idea of a wise consensus that "dumbasess" like Trump break the echochamber of wisdom by their politically incorrect talk.
It is a bad idea to be manipulated by these people to be scandalized by deviating from their orthodoxies. Because their orthodoxy is harmful and untrue and deviating from it is good.
As for Trump, the guy has some correct instincts and shows some level of critical thinking, and some courage to say good things that this immoral faction makes to be politically incorrect, but Trump is also a politician who tries to compromise with the establishment and wants to be liked. Political incorectness is a necessary element of following a correct and ethical path, but sure sometimes he does say some things that are both politically incorrect and kind of dumb, but most anger is over either irrelevancies, or over things that he has a big point or even a small one He is more like the half eyed man in the kingdom of the blind.
More options
Context Copy link