This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm going to guess there's no serious expectation that anyone reading the Hustler story about Falwell having sex with his mom believed this actually reflected reality, that it was a journalistic effort to uncover Falwell's legacy of incest that actually happened. I'm also going to guess that there is a serious expectation that people who listened to Jones claiming that Sandy Hook parents were crisis actors would seriously believe that this indeed reflected reality, that the supposed parents were really a part of some grand conspiracy.
Yes, and note that the Hustler fake ad included the statement: "ad parody — not to be taken seriously."
More options
Context Copy link
No should listen to Alex Jones and seriously believe his statements are news, any more than Homer is representing a true history of Odeseus' voyage home or the Aneid is the history of how Rome was founded. It's entertainment for people who want their stories to be larger than life.
Then he doesn't get to have it both ways - just like Jon Stewart and 'Clown Nose On, Clown Nose Off'. You can't claim to be telling the truth about what is really going on, the truth that the powerful don't want you to know, then claim "oh no, I'm only a comedian and this is an entertainment show, not a news show, nobody is meant to believe the stories" when it suits you.
'The Lizard People run the world from their secret Moon base that was built by the Nazis' is an entertainment story. 'This shooting never happened, there were no dead children and the people claiming to be their parents are all actors' is not.
What if the entertaining aspect is exaggerating and dramatizing the news until it becomes absurd? I think there should be room for that in the 1st.
Pollution is wrecking frog DNA enough to alter secondary sex characteristics as serious news, expressed as the absurd, the powers that be are so evil they turn frogs gay simply for their twisted delight is an absurd exaggeration, to use a less controversial examples.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link