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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   33222 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 10, 2022

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Agreed that we're often bad at living our stated principles, but I think we're worse off if we abandon the principles entirely. Hillary Clinton's speech that I linked below is a good example from when the cracks were just starting to show -- she mostly praises free expression, but puts some caveats in there about hate speech and terrorism(tm).

"Politics" literally means the conflict between differing groups and/or people concerning the organization, conduct, and governance of society. Wherever people disagree about what is right to do, there is politics.

I agree with your first sentence more than the second. A lot of people claim that everything is politics, which is way too broad. Disagreeing about what is right to do is narrower, but still too broad -- a lot of that kind of debate is religious rather than political, for instance. But your first sentence gets it about right, and I stand by my claim that we should confine that conflict so that, for example, debates about gay marriage don't leak into our fast food chains and web browser companies.

Agreed that we're often bad at living our stated principles, but I think we're worse off if we abandon the principles entirely.

Statements do not contain a constant inner meaning that remains well-understood and acknowledged over time. Moreover, principles necessarily mutate over time, as conditions and times change. Of course, it's very easy to get things wrong when updating principles . . . but that doesn't mean nothing ever changes or can ever change.

A lot of people claim that everything is politics, which is way too broad.

Too broad for what? Too broad to describe the category you're referring to? I'm confused.

Disagreeing about what is right to do is narrower, but still too broad -- a lot of that kind of debate is religious rather than political, for instance.

What makes you think that religious debates and institutions are not political? I would recommend reading up on the history of sectarian disputes in Islam, or of early-church or medieval church councils. More recently, why wouldn't you think that Vatican II, which modernized catholic liturgy, was not political or influenced by cultural politics?

I stand by my claim that we should confine that conflict so that, for example, debates about gay marriage don't leak into our fast food chains and web browser companies.

How do you propose to do this? What happens when two people both (a) believe that they are correct about, e.g. gay marriage, and (b) have diametrically opposing views? How do you propose they live with that dissonance, especially where the belief forms a core part of their chosen identity?

Too broad for what?

Too broad of a definition of "political". If we define it such that everything is political, then the word no longer conveys any meaning.

How do you propose to do this?

I picked fast food specifically because it's something that is overtly political now (rainbow-washing from most chains, conservatives going to Chik-Fil-A and progressives avoiding it) that wasn't before. Gay marriage has very little to do with hamburgers and fries, and is not a thing that should have to factor into your decisions about where to eat. ESPECIALLY if you're part of a socially-disfavored group.

Motte: everything is in some way connected to politics

Bailey: it's fine for me to wage the culture war in any context

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