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If your right acts apoplectic towards the idea of right + using power, but tolerates much more the left using power, or it self even engages in using power for left wing or foreign nationalist causes, then they aren't really much of a right wing conservative party and at least in part made by people who are a false opposition and identify more with the other side.
Trying to squeeze all politics outside of that into fascism is trying to fit too diverse a political space into too tiny a box.
However, it is true that this behavior is very widespread and it accurately.
But by these standards a lot of countries majority populations, including in Europe are made of fascists. As was much of history.
This is genuinely the model that much of the uniparty ideologues, supposed intellectuals, mouthpieces etc promote.
It is also true that there are people who identify as fascists because they think that it is the only allowed way to be nationalists for their people, and not to be oikophobic, support their own demise, etc. But in doing so they are to an extend falling into the opposition's trap. Although one falls also into their trap if they are too eager to favor throwing everyone to their right under the bus to save their own skin, while helping the far left in the process. I will still promote a politics that isn't fascism though while also being against antifa ideology, because it is both strategically superior but also the morally and ideologically superior option.
But generally I am more interested into what people are genuinely after than how they label themselves although I care about those too. But more so about how the use of labels affect politics.
Part of the antifa extremists trick is to label anything else.
It is absolutely true that throughout its history the antifa movement was not about opposing things like imperialism, attrocities, but also about hatred of the right, conservatives, insufficiently far leftists, non communists too since some of the more notable antifascist regimes, and nationalism and the collective group rights and interests of Europeans especially although it has also affected some other groups like Japan as seen of recent.
Obviously the antifa ideology is also promoted by foreign groups who are nationalists for their own and undermining the native group.
To have a sane politics and avoid then, we simply must reject the antifa ideology.
We need to seperate things like murderous imperialism at expense of other nations which is objectionable from being proud of your own people, supporting and identifying with your nation and opposing what would lead to your people's destruction and disminishment, which if done recirpocably has been a much better working system both in theory and in practice than the antifa hatred of moderates, right wingers, conservatives, nationalists, and of European peoples and people insuficiently.
It simply is true that much of the hysteria about fascism is not about opposing evil things but about opposing right wingers, hated ethnic outgroup, and not having far left oikophobic politics. In fact it is about opposing things that a reasonable person who is moderate would support, in favor of a hysteric far left paranoid anti-intellectual overreacting fanaticism.
Another important issue is the right using power. Well, moderate nationalists have existed aplenty, but they have been failing because they let people like Satre and the decolonize our society types get away with it and brand everyone opposing this as supremacist, fascist. They have in part accepted too much of the framing of the far left. The right being more willing to use power to keep antifa types down would have been a good thing.
So, I think part of the discourse about fascism is about pressuring people to be passive losers. This isn't to say that using power for the sake of power is good. I do think keeping down people like Satre, the weatherman underground group, which also included the guy who founded BLM and their fellow travelers and organisations like that is a moral obligation.
This idea of "all or nothing" that exists about the discourses on fascism, where you either allow the antifa types to take over and transform your country into the treatment that usually is reserved for hostile foreign occupation, or else you are the mega evil fascist, is just a false dichotomy. There is a wise sweet spot on how a country ought to be ruled, and its norms. That sweet spot doesn't exist in never ending doubling down in any direction but it does lie in a more conservative, right wing and nationalist direction, to fix the failures of the current situation that is too far to the left and fails to even have sustainable birth rates along with a plethora of other enormous problems.
Additionally, when theorizing about the better system internationally, neither fascism is good, nor is the anti european, antifa ideology good. A universal nationalist system which hasn't really been that rare ideology, which necessitates respecting the rights of other nation states and therefore other peoples national sovereignty, self determination, etc and some of such foundations even if ignored have been part of the development, while concurently the antifa type of system has been increasing. Obviously the "European collectivism and Europeans and European nationalists are inherently evil and not indigenous" is not good for Europeans and European nationalism, and therefore because it tries to screw over Europeans so thoroughly, it is against International Justice. You can't have utopia no matter what system, but a system that takes into consideration the collective group interests of Europeans and of non Europeans and doesn't try to destroy the first, and make them second class citizens, while demonizing millions of people who oppose this agenda, is really a non starter.
The hatred of the antifa uniparty types towards people who don't share their ideology is also very notable negative consequence and makes the transformation of society into a totalitarian direction inevitable unless they are stopped. Not to mention the legacy of actual murders commited by antifascist regimes like the Soviet Union. So there is a moral obligation for the right wing to use power to stop that.
You've summed up my view of the GOP, and why they're useless, pretty well.
Which is why elites of the post-Nuremberg regime fear and hate so much of their own subject populations. Why — as well-detailed by Curtis Yarvin — they reduced electoral politics to a sham, use Jacobin arguments to redefine "democracy" as meaning rule by left-wing technocrats, and denounce any actual democracy as "populism," "demagoguery," and, yes, "fascism."
And that hysteria will continue until the elites that promote it are removed. And, no, there's no voting them out. As Brandon Walsh put it on Twitter, "All of our solutions are fedposts."
I'd say less "let people like…" as were "forced to by people like…" But yes, we need to ditch the framing of the far left… particularly the "fascism bad" framing.
Anyone on the right who isn't a useless GOP establishment-style "conservative," who doesn't actually conserve anything, is eventually going to get tarred with the "fascist" brush; so you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
While they will try to put the label on you, not accepting its legitimacy and not playing the role they have designated for you is better choice strategically. Obviously this is a very stigmatized term, and makes it easier for the left to crush the opposition if one makes it easier to attach it to them.
But it is important to also on some level as you say and you are right about that, not to let the threat of the label scare you from opposing them and working with others on the right, including further right against them. Since they will try to label any effective genuine opposition. It is still easier for them to label people if they are ideology is some kind of limitless nationalism, lets bury everyone else perspective.
And I also argued that in terms of preferable policy, I don't think the modern right must be fascists but must act in a manner that the fake right will be inclined to call fascist and also should not treat historical fascism as the epitome of evil which I agree it would be the mistake that would make people align too much with the far left and be too timid to stand for themselves. But there is also no reason to think that means we need to be followers of fascism. Also because the murderous imperialism done by the fascists isn't necessary to oppose this situation, nor desirable in my view, and itself makes it easy to demonize people who oppose the antifa coalition.
As we agree, the reaction to fascism, that reaction is not because of the genuinely bad aspects of fascism, but because far leftists which include people who falsely claim or believe to be moderates hate any of the right wing, preservationist, use of power, and even moderate nationalist elements in general for their ethnic outgroup, and within fascism. They are also highly anti conservative. And really the whole overcomplaining about fascism has always been about the far leftists attacking those insufficiently far to the left. And so, it would be stupid for any genuine right to prioritize crushing people on our right who are probably more willing to oppose the far left anyway. Especially since some of them might choose such symbols but in practice aren't really the reincarnation of Mussolini.
However the stigma remains, and some of it is not just because of this milking but genuine bad elements of fascism.
As for whether having any willingness to not adopt views to the right of me, makes me a far leftist. Well it doesn't, but also I don't mind if my preferred positions means I am sharing some common ground with anyone, provided I am not supporting stupid stuff. I criticize people for sharing common ground with the far left ideas that makes their civilization's demise inevitable.
Part of my problem with modernity is too much doubling down in a far left direction and people compromising with what is essentially driving over the cliff.
But it is impossible to have any sensible viewpoint and not share some ground with extremists, on the issues they have a point. Aristotle figured this out a long time ago. When he compared two vices to a virtue, the virtue often had some elements of what becomes a vice in disproportionate amount.
Also, you ought to note that the kind of people I call antifa, or other components that I would classify as Jewish supremacists who are an important part of this faction, but not all, do not try to present themselves as arch villains and sometimes try to hide their power level and really much of their tactic is to demonize the opposition while present themselves in an overly positive manner.
Another facet of this, I genuinely buy into some extend standard morality of a late 20th century moderate nationalist way of perceiving politics in a politically incorrect manner and I am genuinely out to stop and oppose the things I criticize but I don't have the most far right possible perspective. For example, someone like Jesse Singal who says that white collectivism is evil is genuinely violating white Americans civil rights and should get the attention from the department of justice for that. Obviously he won't.
You could do things like treat defining any moderate nationalism as fascism, or worse Nazism, as blood libel defamation, and go after those doing so. And you actually will be perfectly reasonable to do that.
I believe it is a mistake but also untrue to promote the political compass meme view of history of normal lib left, authleft, lib right and then the evil fascists of the auth right quadrant who are out to genocide everyone. The broad antifa coalition, fails to be correct, moderate, even handed and in fact that is a key part of why they gatekeep what is reasonable and have the agenda I lambasted in these posts and the obsession about fascists.
A lot of people who have compromised with the current situation and spin it as democracy vs evil need to be reminded how it would look like if the system worked as it ought to. Deconstructing their false view to the world and bringing things back to reality is both good on its own merits and strategically useful. They gain a lot of power by capturing institutions but also promoting this propaganda that spins the opposition as extremists villains, and them as the defenders of "our democracy".
Surely, you are not going to get a broad movement, by adopting this self identification as the villains. Moderate nationalism has been more successful in various European countries than in the USA, because a greater proportion of the population see it, correctly, as normal, and share this ideology. And don't treat it having borders and nationalism as ism, bad thing, tm. Nor are they some kind of Nietzscheans. And don't identify as fascists. But yeah historically, moderate nationalist movements failed to do enough to keep the left down and there are lessons to be learned by movements which should be edgier than their historical behavior.
Developing a thick skin and doing what you ought to, but also working to deconstruct their labels, put accurate labels to them, and use influence to punish and put a stop to their defamation. But of course, It helps to be genuinely outraged at the labels these people use which are inaccurate and distortions of reality and how it ought to be classified. Communist/antifa type classifications of classism, racism, are all inherently false, and adopted in one sided manner besides.
It is actually a genuine problem that they react in the manner they do and describe things in the way they do. As if their ethnic outgroup must apologize for its own existence, and having rights, and preserving it self as evil. And so, this mentality that without being fascist doesn't buy into the left's (and fake right, etc) framing is effective against it.
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