site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 7, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Being super smart doesn't magically translate into knowing how to build turbofans or how to do nuclear reactor metalworks.

If you'd ever worked in the semiconductor industry you'd realize that being surrounded by brilliant people doesn't automatically make you competitive.

I understand the idea is that the number makes these hypothetical people almost magically smart, but intelligence still has to contend with logistics and more than half of them do not know how to read, let alone have a basic education.

In that situation you'd want to catch up as quickly as possible, which is precisely what Meiji was about. What exactly is passive about actively modernizing your country to compete on the world stage?

If you'd ever worked in the semiconductor industry you'd realize that being surrounded by brilliant people doesn't automatically make you competitive.

because you're competing with another team of brilliant people, not with midwits that were somehow sitting on a pile of factories and IP.

but intelligence still has to contend with logistics and more than half of them do not know how to read, let alone have a basic education.

Logistics? Do they need to import brand new learning boards (or whatever is in fashion now) from Netherlands to get education? Half of them are illiterate because they are ~65 IQ, not because their soil is poor in education micronutrients and their government refuses to import these education micronutrients. It takes much more effort to hammer literacy into heads of 65 IQ people rather than IQ 180 people. By the way, the younger generation of Liberians has much higher literacy rate, it's shifting even without hypothetical IQ boost. 180 IQ people will build everything needed for literacy quickly, it's not AMSL machine for 3 um fab plants.

In that situation you'd want to catch up as quickly as possible, which is precisely what Meiji was about.

Precisely, you handwaived my objection that Meiji Japan imported knowledge from societes whose phenotypic IQ with higher (at the time) rather than 80 points below! Several millions of 180 IQ Liberians won't import knowledge -- they'll steal it faster than you notice. Better pray that conflicts of competing 180 IQ clans don't involve undermining your country or making it to go at war with another.

It reminds me Russia xenophiles who say that Russia never did anything by itself. But then, Sergei Korolev didn't say "USSR needs to wait for a western country, like USA or France to launch sattelite and man into space, and then USSR can license technology from them".

Genghis Khan wasn't literate and were none of his generals, and never sieged any fortified cities. But they found a way to defeat many enemies who had read Sun Tzu and the likes.