This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I have encountered perennialism, but in the context of woo spirituality and religion. What makes your thesis interesting is that you apply it to social norms and taboos, which I have not seen before. Is there a handy name for this argument, or are there any readings you recommend on it?
And yet, in adapting to an increasingly rapidly changing world, we have no choice but to remove some of the fences which we have lost all original documentation for. Japan was able to modernize with its Meiji restoration, but Qing dynasty China clung on to its traditions either too hard or in the wrong ways. How can a proper debate about tradition take place when we don’t even understand the purpose of tradition, and yet find ourselves needing to choose some to give up because what we have right now isn’t working out?
What was there before, but power games dressed up in the garb of religion or ideology? What difference does it make whether these power games are dressed up or raw?
I’ve not read Durkheim, so I don’t see how his book on different reasons for suicide plays into this.
I had not considered them, and that is eye opening. The bourgeois framing, whether in support of or against tattoos, is all I’ve known. I want more of this eye-openingness, but don’t know how to ask for it or where to find it.
What are traditional institutions, the family and the church? What meaning are they compressing other than continually hammering on the same theme of “These are what honest upstanding citizens look like versus no-gooders?”
In the old days in the US, women wearing pants were controversial. In terms of meaning, that particular requirement seems rather redundant even for its time, what with all the other norms needed to remain in good standing with polite society. I don’t see how retaining a no-female-trousers norm would’ve helped save the comprehensibility of modern society, and nowadays the only places where there’s still institutional backing for such a norm are backwater states like Afghanistan.
More options
Context Copy link