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Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 22, 2024

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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This is purely anecdotal, but from my experience with yaoi/gay porn, female artists/writers are much more likely to include guro or psychological torture in their works than male ones. Even when they draw both yaoi and straight porn, they will only include it in yaoi. And this has been the case probably the last 20 years, and a lot of these artists are Japanese as well so it's not something contained to the West.

So as a whole this doesn't really seem very surprising. Rather than this becoming an indication of anti-male publishing, it's an indication that what used to be fanfiction people read in private, rose to the mainstream. The publishers are delivering female targeted fiction, for their female majority fanbases. If you want an actual example, you just need to look at Fifty Shades of Grey. The movie is rated 4.2/10, but you can find thousands of stories like it on Ao3.

I don't think that this is really a bad thing. In general mainstream has become something that panders to all demographics which I don't find very interesting, so the development of new works that are targeted specifically to either men or women doesn't seem like a bad thing. Like in Japan, it's been like that for ages, where you have shoujo that is targeted towards girls, and primarily watched by girls. And you have plenty of harem power fantasies as well as regular shounen that are targeted towards boys and watched by boys. Although shounen has acquired a bigger female audience recently.

I know nothing about any of that, other than the observation that the internet (where I’m assuming lots of what you talk about lives or are least has deep roots in) is opening up thousands or millions of new niches to cater for and profit from new interest groups.

But honestly, I don’t think it’s relevant at all to this point. This is about mainstream publishing and society/culture. Which has become extremely anti-male/anti-masculine in the past ~10 years.

I’m talking UK/Irish literary fiction, which is not internet native. It’s offline establishment native. It holds a powerful influence over the conversations being had by normie people who don’t spend any time on Reddit or X (and who might not be able to find Reddit or X if you asked them to).

As a sideways related example, Entourage was a hit mainstream US show, centering on four male characters and their interests, ambitions struggles, screened between 2004-11. When you watch it now and realise that there’s an almost 0% chance of anything like it being approved now, never mind be given prime time slots for years, you realise how far the mind virus has gone in the decision making corridors of power across all mainstream publishing and media.

I agree with the BahRamYou that there's no malevolent conspiracy. Women simply spend more money on media they consume. So publishers cater to them.

I’m talking UK/Irish literary fiction, which is not internet native. It’s offline establishment native.

The ones I talked about with shounen/shoujo is offline. It has physical sales. Same thing in China. Where despite the CCP's stance against homosexuality some of the most popular novels and tv shows are danmei, which are stories with gay romance, but without the sex and kissing. Whose fanbase is primarily female.

As a sideways related example, Entourage was a hit mainstream US show, centering on four male characters and their interests, ambitions struggles, screened between 2004-11. When you watch it now and realise that there’s an almost 0% chance of anything like it being approved now, never mind be given prime time slots for years, you realise how far the mind virus has gone in the decision making corridors of power across all mainstream publishing and media.

If you want stories that are made for and by men, there's plenty of webnovels you can read on Royalroad or self published on Amazon, or fanfics on Spacebattles or other sites.

And actually there are still shows made primarily for men. Reacher, Jack Ryan, Terminal List. Adaptations of novels that probably do still have a primarily male readership.

I agree, but I don't think there's any malevolent conspiracy at work here. It's just that TV, and especially books, are more of a female market. So the publishers naturally make stuff aimed at women, which attracts more of a female audience and also creates a pipeline where the only new writers getting trained are the sort of people who can write that stuff. And over time it just becomes more and more extreme. The guys go elsewhere to things like sports, video games, anime, and internet blogs.