This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Well, to me the whole point of this conversation is “if there’s a risk of overloading the medical system, should we alter our behavior to reduce that load?”
Your argument is that it wasn’t justified in that case because the system wasn’t truly overloaded.
Whereas the original comment seems to be about even in the case that the system is overloaded.
No man I just acknowledge a healthy middle-aged man had a near-to-zero-as-makes-no-difference chance at getting seriously ill, much less dying, from corona. And that therefore the surgeon who could have saved my dad's life should have not zoomed in from the couch.
And perhaps more to the point, it is not swift to deny dying people even oddball chances at survival when the official paths have been closed. For whatever reason.
I am the one advocating for more access to 'healthcare.' You are advocating for more compliance to the 'healthcare' system.
I’m sorry about what happened.
But denying someone an elective surgery because of some risk calculation to the patient wasn’t really the point I was talking about here.
I’m saying in an actual triage situation it makes sense to curtail elective surgeries, and also it makes sense for regular people to try and not overburden the system even more.
Whether or not COVID was an actual triage situation or a situation that was mistakenly considered as a triage scenario is beside the point.
I care about the medical “system” inasmuch as it prevents people from dying or having severe health complications, so back to the OPs point, I would totally modify my behavior a bit if my local medical system asked me to during a triage type event.
Covid is an example of how a publicly funded healthcare system cannot be trusted to tell you what counts as triage. They have no skin in the game, no incentive to make decisions that actually maximize health. If your father dies, they don't even get upset.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link