site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 2, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Once we dig deep enough, the real reason World War II started was to preserve Anglo hegemony over Europe

Oh brother.

You mention that the British guarantees to Poland were anti-German, which is correct, but might that have something to do with the fact that Germany had just broken its promises from Munich? There were also the serious deliberations about aiding Finland in the Winter War. The notion of Anglo hegemony over Europe is silly itself as Britain was never much interested in unilaterally dominating the continent. Instead, it consistently wanted a balance of power where no single entity gained a decisive edge, the goal being to get itself a free hand to manage its overseas empire. If anything, France was much more interested in continental influence, and Britain tolerated this since it was clear that France wasn't going to go full Napoleon but rather was trying to contain the revanchist nations.

ritain was never much interested in the continent. It consistently wanted a balance of power where no single entity gained a decisive edge

Oh come on, you can't just contradict yourself one phrase over.

As I mentioned in that WW1 thread, Britain has always had this particular explicit interest in the continent never unifying, for obvious geopolitical reasons. That's not neutral.

Wanting a balance of power is not the same as being a hegemon, but we can't well pretend that Britain wasn't constantly meddling in continental affairs.

Maybe I could have phrased what I meant more explicitly (which I've gone and edited now), but you also cut out the part I had right before that explained the context. "Balance of power" != "Anglo hegemony" if words mean anything. Sure, Britain was willing to make alliances to prevent hegemony of others. I never claimed otherwise.