This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Wow, thanks for sharing I'm glad I didn't miss that post. In case people don't know the OP of the reddit thread's username is an homage to the very pilot that was involved in the crash. The pilot was an active redditor that, as his username suggests, sought to dispel the misconceptions surrounding the the V-22.
Mostly he spent a lot of time explaining it was statistically average when it came to flight hours per crash when compared to other rotary aircraft. The kind of viral stuff that doesn't matter to Marines engaging in morbid bants or casual History Channel guys explaining how the M1 Garand ping was a problem that alerted Nazis a soldier ran out of ammo.
It's ironic that what were known, solvable parts failures in the V-22 likely had a major hand in killing the one guy who was so publicly committed to explaining how perfectly fine the aircraft is. For him to be blamed the same as a parts failure is borderline ridiculous if that post is accurate.
Does anyone know why that account was suspended? I had to google the username to remember, found another Osprey AMA on reddit (may be the same person) and they also have a suspended account. I know the wife of /u/UR_WRONG_ABOUT_V22/ took over the account shortly after the November '23 incident. Unless it was some LARP, stolen valor incident, or "suspended" is the same as deleted, then that seems very strange. As far as I know GUNDAM-22 (a pilot in the Nov 23 crash) was /u/UR_WRONG_ABOUT_V22/.
As for your larger point, while I agree we'll see material damages from a competency crisis I'm not sure this is the best example. For an aircraft that already has a controversial reputation it wouldn't surprise me that "pilot error" would find its way pushed up the who-to-blame ladder. If the V-22 is useful, good enough, and safe enough, but carries an unwarranted reputation, then review boards have good reason to fear the whole truth. It can fly faster and further than other rotary craft. It doesn't take many senators that have use for a Save Our Troops crusade to jeopardize this capability.
That said, bureaucrats placing blame to protect Boeing contracts and their credibility alone is disgusting and, I agree, emblematic of wider corruption. Do I expect this issue to be addressed? Yeah. Would I expect better risk management, manufacturing/quality control? Not really. That would be also be a good crusade for a senator, but you can't replace Boeing in a day.
It happened quite recently. His wife was active a few weeks ago, it says deleted here: https://old.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/1egsd44/air_force_makes_big_changes_after_the_osprey/
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link