This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Neither country has exactly proven itself to be a strategic mastermind in this war. Everyone knows how bad Russia has miscalculated the way the war would unfold, but so did Ukraine. Back in April 2022 peace was within reach: the Istanbul communique didn't exactly benefit Ukraine, but the terms were quite generous. All Ukraine had to do was not sink the Russian flagship and suppress the news from Bucha. The decision to stay and fight back has now resulted in casualties that dwarf Bucha. There's no way either country can come out on top in a peace deal in 2024.
Not quite. Russia is pushing through Ukrainian lines with a velocity that is still slow but is also much faster than in the old "Russian forces have taken over the living room of 29 Bandera street" joke. Taking Pokrovsk, Slavyansk and Kramatorsk won't be easy, especially given Russia's operational incompetence, but the plan is to keep bombing them until Ukraine runs out of reinforcements.
Circling back to the original question, why invade Russia proper?
If it was a plan to get Russia to divert its forces from the Donbass frontline, so far it has failed, especially given that Ukrainian troops taking part in the operation had been diverted from the Donbass too.
Is it a landgrab operation in the anticipation of upcoming peace talks? What peace talks?
Is it a way to remind other countries that Ukraine still can fight to get more aid? Maybe.
Is it a consolation goal before Ukraine starts talking about negotiations? It's not like it has backfired on them before, right?
More options
Context Copy link