This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I like your premise. In a similar vein, I have been imagining reality as more of the blind men describing an elephant. The elephant represents reality, it's a violent force that acts as it wants and can stomp us dead at any time, and we are all the blind men trying to stay away from the dangers of reality/nature. I don't think the "powers that run society" are any better informed than any of the rest of us- they too are blind men, attempting to secure their safety in light of the elephant that wants to harm them. I don't really see the people redefining power as acting from malice, but rather they're working on a faulty conception of reality that they inherited from generations of faulty thinking that are metaphorically saying: there is no elephant, or the elephant can't hurt us, or the elephant is actually a horse, or hey don't you think we should befriend the elephant.... basically everyone has become so detached from reality that the elephant is thought of as something else. Now that we see nature rearing its ugly head (covid, war, breakdown of trust, lockdowns, everything else going on) it seems like the inteligentsia is quickly moving right ideologically to try to get a better understanding of reality rather than sort of lingering in the weird philosophical theory area that doesn't have a particularly firm grasp on reality on the left.
I believe the arc of the 2010s was basically an entire generation of people (millennials) raised on a flawed model of reality attempting to direct the world into its unsustainable idealized world and then clashing with the underlying fundamentals of nature that can't be theorized away. But perhaps I'm basically just describing my own personal experiences of becoming an adult and projecting it onto the broader culture- but more things seem to corroborate my position every day.
This is so gross and scary and horrible to me. It makes me feel like I'll never be able to commune with reality with everyone living around me and I'll always be doomed to pointing at the shadows on the wall. Everyone preaching blank slatism and gender theory makes me feel so gaslit when my lived experiences reveal time and time again that certain people are predisposed to certain behaviors and so on. This might be my paranoia talking but part of me is frightened that if culture doesn't steer things away from these lunatic blank slate conspiracies, humans using technology will conspire to enforce the ideologies until they've sanded away reality to the point of everyone actually becoming a blank slate. This will be sold to the people as a beautiful thing- everyone will be equal and have a perfect chance at happiness, and the class of people enforcing it will believe they're doing the right thing. But in my mind, it's completely degrading and dehumanizing and the worst possible route for humanity to take.
Excuse my ranting. I've been traveling internationally for the better part of a year and the new, different cultures and people I see in every country I visit is to me one of the most beautiful experiences I can ever imagine having and the thought of every person being degraded into someone without history or culture or context but rather is just a droid to sell netflix downloads to is truly the worst vision of the future I can imagine. And for what? So that rich Americans can feel great that they've created the shining tower on the hill that allows everyone to feel equal, and that they're not racist, because they've shoehorned every person into a box that says "person number 6,xxx,xxx,xxx" instead of some more humane and descriptive understanding of their unique history and place in the world. It works until everyone starts defecting and society starts breaking along tribal lines, which appears to be the current state of the US and perhaps the broader west. All I can do is hope that the powers that be start to see the horror they're directing us toward, maybe covid was a wakeup call for people, and I do feel hopeful that people are starting to have a more nuanced vision of things, but part of me isn't so sure.
It is not the first time I get this type of comment when I present my views on this topic. But these are thougts that originated back in 2014 when I saw what was happening in gamergate. I've since then expanded and learnt so much of where it originates and how it interacts with the algorithms of social media that, I simply had the time to make peace with the thought that people operate within alternate reality. It is also exacerbated by social media algorithm bubbles that doesn't correct them properly. So everyone lives in a slightly different version of the world designed to trap them in it with dopamine loops. But I don't get depressed over it anymore like the day I realized this pattern. My advice make peace with it and try to have authentic and genuine interactions with people. They where far and few between even before social media.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link