site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 15, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Not saying I disagree with the decision, but the issue with that film in particular was not so much that it existed but the means by which they intended to get it on television. In a normal situation you'd make a film and then shop it around to networks with the idea that they give you money in exchange for the rights to air it, the idea being that the network would be able to cover this cost through advertising or subscription fees or whatever. The producers at Citizens United never attempted to do this. Instead they wanted to pay Comcast to make it available on-demand. The on-demand element complicates things a bit, but keep in mind that in most situations where a producer is paying a network to air content it's in the context of leased access sold to advertisers. This makes it a thornier question because most of the stuff that we view as legitimate discourse isn't being paid for by people who have a stake in how we react to it. If a popular automotive review show gives the new Ford Bronco a good review we give that review a certain amount of credibility. The amount of credibility we give it changes if we know that someone paid them to give it a good review. There's a fine line between commentary and advertising, and the rules about what you can do if something's an ad are a lot different than if it's just a genuine expression of opinion. To my recollection, Citizens United didn't even try to pretend that it wasn't an ad and instead leaned into the First Amendment aspects. I'm not going to offer an opinion of whether the court was right or wrong here, I'm just pointing out that the case wasn't as clear cut as one may assume based on the facts alone. It was pretty clear from the beginning that the case was mostly about political advertising and whether outside groups could run unlimited ads.