site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

He's tried to use money and fame to buy his way in, but he's too fundamentally lacking in class or tact.

Money, fame and golfing ability. Elite golf is part of WASP high society (Steve Sailer has written a lot about this), and Trump embraced it and it embraced Trump (rejecting him only after January 6th). I don't think you are excluded from the inner ring if a club like Winged Foot not only grants you membership, but also tolerates blatant cheating.

I can absolutely imagine that Trump needed the single-digit handicap (which he earned legitimately when he was younger) to get into clubs that old money is allowed to shoot 90s at, but if the bluebloods see you as actively undesirable (at the time Trump was learning to golf, "undesirable" mostly meant "Jewish"), you need to be winning majors to get in with pure golfing ability.

Trump is also a clown in a way that real high society elites aren't.

This is a choice. Not many real high society elites make that choice, but the ones who do don't get kicked out of the club.

The real upper class may be popular, but they don't need popularity, and in fact ought to mildly disdain it.

Trump doesn't need popularity for business reasons, he craves it for personal reasons. Fred Trump never courted popularity, and nor do most commercial real estate guys. Trumps third and fourth careers (reality TV star and politician) were choices made by a man who was already rich enough to do what he wanted.

Of course, the ultimate test of whether old money accepts you is who your kids marry, and the results for Trump are interestingly ambiguous.

  • Don Jr married a girl who was "brought up in an Upper East Side townhouse" and went to a posh Manhattan private school. But the white-shoe lawyer who paid for the townhouse was her stepfather, not her father, and both the girl and her mother had worked as models.
  • Ivanka married the scion of one of the richest Jewish families in NYC, but the family was in disgrace when they met after Charles Kushner was jailed for tax evasion and associated process crimes.
  • Eric married a woman from what appears to be a normal middle to upper-middle class background.
  • Tiffany married a billionaire's son, but he's Arab.
  • Barron is single.