site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I understand that your intention with this post isn't anything as simple-minded as "this genius came out as trans, therefore trans is legit and TERFs should shut their mouths". But even if you're not doing that, some people may take it that way, and I see similar arguments for all kinds of political stances all the time, so I'm going to lay out here why the argument is fallacious.

Years ago, Scott had a post arguing that brilliant people also holding some very strange (and presumably incorrect) beliefs is precisely what you'd naively expect. A genius (broadly defined) is a person who identifies actionable patterns that no one else has noticed before, which means that they must have an unusually sensitive pattern-matching ability, which can very easily devolve into fully-fledged apophenia if left unchecked:

Linus Pauling thought Vitamin C cured everything. Isaac Newton spent half his time working on weird Bible codes. Nikola Tesla pursued mad energy beams that couldn’t work. Lynn Margulis revolutionized cell biology by discovering mitochondrial endosymbiosis, but was also a 9-11 truther and doubted HIV caused AIDS.

To Scott's examples I'll add the laundry list of mathematicians who went mad, including Alexander Grothendieck, Kurt Gödel and John Forbes Nash among others.

"This extremely smart person is also trans" is not a persuasive argument that we should take the empirical, experiential or normative claims of trans people/trans activists seriously, any more than the argument that no one should eat sugar because Hitler did too, or that we should all be Christian because that student's name? Albert Einstein. If you think the arguments in favour of this or that component of trans rights make sense, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the only people advancing them were the dumbest people you've ever met; if you think they don't make sense, it likewise doesn't make a difference if everyone advancing them got into Harvard on an academic scholarship, is a card-carrying MENSA member and/or has a PhD in theoretical physics. It's Bulverism in reverse.