site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 10, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Many see Glucksmann's timidity towards LFI as weakness given he held a larger share of the vote in the European elections, and some, including two former prime ministers have denounced the alliance's inclusion of parties that supported Hamas, including the NPA,

[citation needed] What prominent politicians "support Hamas"? What did they say exactly?

Here's the official release by the NPA which they are being investigated over. It includes the following phrase:

Le NPA ne se joint pas à la litanie des appels à la prétendue “désescalade”. En effet, la guerre contre les PalestinienNEs dure depuis 75 ans, et la gauche devrait se rappeler de la nécessaire solidarité avec les luttes de résistances contre l'oppression et l’occupation. Le NPA rappelle son soutien aux PalestinienNEs et aux moyens de luttes qu’ils et elles ont choisi pour résister.

I think it's pretty straightforward. They are literally supporting "palestinians and the means of struggle they chose to resist" and end with "Intifada!".

I wouldn't expect any less from revolutionary trotskyists, and I think they should be allowed to say that, but as the law stands in France right now, that opinion is illegal.

Now it merits to be said that this party, despite a long history on the left, is extremely marginal.

A lot more important is the position of LFI, the now most influential left wing pary, and while it isn't anywhere near as inflamatory, they are still aligned to a specific side. Mathilde Panot got raked over the coals for refusing to call Hamas a terrorist organization and Mélenchon himself is constantly denouncing Israel and its appartheid state whilst being a lot more evasive about any questions involving Palestinians.

Anyway. The center left has fought LFI on the Gaza question and I interpret Glücksmann's success as a rejection of "antisemitism" from center left voters given the testimonies of the many such people I know. Though to be fair, I don't have hard numbers to back this.