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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   23862 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 10, 2024

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To me, a much more satisfying conflict among good guys would be for good people to fight over complex issues and/or ideological divides, and do so rationally rather than emotionally. But this is politically and culturally impossible, because you'd have to believe that there are good people on both sides (TM).

I hear really good things about Twelve Angry Men, though I haven't seen it yet. It's on my list.

You have been misinformed. The movie's climax sees the one juror insistent on a guilty verdict 'proven' wrong by... all the other jurors ostracizing and refusing to talk to him?

Tell me your movie was written by women without telling me it was written by women.

Also @Tenaz

Ah, guess I was wrong. I know a little bit about the movie, and I know that that final juror (number 3?) is an emotional holdout. But I thought the rest of the jurors were more rational in their turn to not guilty. I still want to watch it, I hear it's great.

FWIW, I don't think the description of the movie's climax being the one holdout being "proven" wrong is incorrect. The holdout was "proven" wrong throughout the course of the film during which the jurors discuss the case, go over the evidence, and even mime out scenarios of what might have happened, which all introduce reasonable doubt (what constitutes "reasonable" is obviously subjective, but the film presents the doubt as a reasonable conclusion that the other jurors reach based on the evidence). The climax involving the one holdout finally relenting actually alludes to that holdout being unreasonably emotional due to past personal experiences haunting him. By the time any sort of ostracization was happening, it was obvious to all 12 jurors, including the one holdout, that the evidence pointed to there being reasonable doubt, and it was his emotional, irrational insistence in sticking with the guilty verdict regardless that was causing the other jurors to treat him this way.

Jury nullification goes both ways. It's a good thing I wouldn't consider that peer pressure, since anybody in favor of a not guilty verdict for that defendant is not my peer.

Not to spoil too much, but Twelve Angry Men is pretty much the opposite of that.

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