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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   26556 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 3, 2024

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As far as I know, no society has ever embraced the following three norms simultaneously and survived: (1) sex outside of marriage is morally acceptable, (2) homosexuality is morally acceptable, (3) male and female sex roles ought to be respected equally. For example, the Romans accepted (1) and (2) but not (3).

Can you give us some examples of societies that have failed because they accepted all 3 of these things at the same time?

I don't know of any society has embraced them together.

Well there you have it. Jesus dude, could you construct a more convoluted argument? Literally throwing darts at a non-existent enemy.

Well there you have it. Jesus dude, could you construct a more convoluted argument? Literally throwing darts at a non-existent enemy.

The conjunction of (1), (2), and (3) is not a straw man; it is exactly where Western civilization is headed. Yet it is uncharted ground. My thesis is that that ought to give us pause that no society has ever tried this combination and survived long enough to record the fact.

You think there are a lot of lost tribes out there that tried all 3 and never invented writing or something? This whole theory is puzzling. No one had gunpowder, phones, and crocs at the same time either.

You think there are a lot of lost tribes out there that tried all 3 and never invented writing or something? This whole theory is puzzling. No one had gunpowder, phones, and crocks at the same time either.

In real life these values are on a continuum. My hypothesis (not thesis) is that the closer a society gets to accepting all three at once, the weaker it gets. It's not that they failed to invent writing; it's that they got conquered and absorbed, and their culture was taken out of the meme pool.

I don't know what you mean by "crock". The question here, though, is what is in need of an explanation. It's obvious why no previous society ever had the internet and remote control drones at the same time. It is not obvious why no society ever had (1) sex outside of marriage is morally acceptable, (2) homosexuality is morally acceptable, and (3) male and female sex roles ought to be respected equally. I would expect that if the combination were not toxic, a society would have embraced them. Many societies embraced (1) and (2), and I submit every society ought to embrace (3); so, an explanation is required as to why it never happened.

It didn't happen for the same reason the internet and drones never existed before. We didn't have the technology to enable it. Technology obviates previous needs and hierarchies. It used to be very important to be strong, not so much anymore, you used to need 7 kids to ensure your old age care, and that enough made it through to adulthood, not anymore.

There simply isn't the need to conform to those previous norms to survive and thrive. The state also takes care of a lot due to abundance of resources brought on by technological progress, hence all the single mothers etc...It isn't that they tried all three and disappeared without a trace (as you say you have zero proof of one succeeding or failing), it is that they couldn't have existed with the technology of the time.

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