Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 208
- 3
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Technically they could and should do it on their own, but clearly they don't, so some sort of handholding might help. Like, if the court could formally submit the law to the legislators with the specific part highlighted as being ambiguous or exploitable, and the case motivating this as an example, and then the legislature must handle it in a timely manner to clarify their intent. Given them an option to say "we endorse this exactly as written, even in light of the example you've submitted with it, the law needs no changes", but if they have to explicitly vote for that publicly then it removes a bunch of the status quo bias that lets these loopholes exist for so long. And also have a system where if the legislature ignores the bill entirely or can't come to a consensus on it then the court publicly admonishes them for being incompetent or something symbolic that doesn't give the courts any actual power beyond what they already have, but makes the legislators look bad publicly when they make stupid laws.
And limit the court's ability to do this to a certain number of times per year or per law or something to prevent activist judges from just harassing legislators with laws they disagree with. But I mostly just want a fastforward button on the existing "law runs into trouble in court -> legislators notice and care -> legislators fix law -> courts can do sane things without having to abuse language" process. And then maybe use this as an excuse to crack down on courts abusing language and bending laws towards what they think was intended instead of what it literally says. Just always do what it literally says and if you think the intent was different ask the legislature to make them match.
I don't think that'd actually do anything, both sides would just blame the opposing side for being partisan in refusing to update the law to their own preference.
A system I've seen casually proposed that's somewhat related that I like the sound of that for every law on the books, some legislater needs to take responsibility for it and say "That's my law", and at any time that legislater has the power to repeal the law if no one else is willing to step up and claim responsibility for it. That way if there's an outdated law, it gets repealed automatically when the legislater leaves office if no one's willing to take it up. And every legislater needs to think carefully about the laws they take responsibility for, because if it causes some big problem, the blame will be on them personally.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link