somedude
8mo ago
I mean, my memory is that the slippery slope people were not talking about transgenderism back then, they were talking about bestiality and pedophilia becoming accepted and mainstream.
"Sure they said next I'd put poop in your Cheerios, but look this is clearly just pee!"
I don't think you understand what a massive blackpill it is for some of us to see the LGBT movement try so hard to include kids in their agenda. Watching them flip their wigs over a law preventing them from teaching their ideology to children below the third grade, or whatever, was bad enough. The fact that the first person to say "hey maybe the parents don't need to know" wasn't instantly exiled and nuked from orbit is, unto itself, a dog-fucking level offense in my eyes.
somedude
8mo ago
Much like Walterodim, I supported gay marriage back in the day, and have come to deeply regret that support in light of the transgender movement that followed. I too consider all the "crazy" religious slippery slope doomcasters to have been vindicated.
somedude
8mo ago
If only we had some kind of example to use as evidence one way or the other. Like say a famous historical case where someone came into a non-academic setting where actual results really mattered, and lowered the requirements in regards to standardized intelligence testing.
That sure would tell us something about how this all works, don't you think?
somedude
8mo ago
The historical event in question was raised, both times, as a counterexample in direct response to your opinion that tested intelligence is unrelated to actual intelligence. You've repeatedly failed to even attempt to defend that opinion or engage with the example in any relevant way. That's called losing an argument.
The squirming just makes you look worse. I mean you understood the question when Aardvark asked it months ago, you just blurted out "no" while neglecting to include any sort of actual reasoning. I don't know what you think you're going to type here that covers for the fact that you still don't have any.
So you're telling us you don't understand why a historical example of someone lowering requirements on a standardized mental aptitude test, to disastrous results, might be even the least bit relevant to your own position that standardized mental aptitude tests don't mean much? That's really the angle you're actually going with here?
Okay well, good luck with that. This has become farcical enough that I'm content with the L you've been handed here. All that's left to do now is to wait for the next HBD thread in however many weeks, let you start your usual routine, and then show everyone my one weird trick for making you forget how to parse English.
somedude
8mo ago
Here, I'll just link to the last time someone brought up McNamara in response to your specious opinions on IQ and you shamelessly dodged. I'll walk you through it so there's no confusion.
Aardvark2:
You're a military man. So tell me why McNamara's moron corps were bad at real-life tasks they were assigned, and damaging to other units' morale even though all what they were different is just worse result on paper-and-pencil test?
You:
Do you really think rationalists are any better at "real-life tasks"? Likewise, if you know many military men you know that the name McNamara is a dirty word. There's a reason that his is one of the only red headstones in Arlington.
Generic sneer aimed at rationalists, twee anecdote that doesn't even try to answer the question. Someone notices.
zPvQINBQvfFR:
Wouldn't that suggest that people who think IQ measures something real and useful in real life might have a point? Guy comes up with idea of lowering the threshold on a mental aptitude test to fill a manpower shortage, and now his name is considered cursed for generations. This sure seems consistent with mental aptitude tests mattering in real life."
Boy it sure does, doesn't it? Someone decided that those silly standardized tests don't really reflect actual human ability, and gambled on that notion in a field where results actually matter. The ensuing trainwreck seems like a big challenge for someone who seems to believe essentially the exact same thing, so let's see how you responded.
You:
No. If anything Robert McNamara illustrates my point that it is possible for someone with a high iq to be a complete moron.
Wow, stunning rebuttal. Sure McNamara conducted a nearly perfect experiment on how much standardized intelligence tests matter in real life, sure the results were directly opposite to what your worldview predicts, but on the other hand you said "No."
Like what do you imagine that people think when they see stuff like this? Your little crack about McNamara being a high IQ moron isn't actually a point. The notion that high IQ people can't make terrible mistakes isn't a belief anyone holds that you're refuting. Meanwhile you have literally zero explanation for why this huge body of evidence shouldn't count. Just "No."
You'll do this kind of stuff, and at the same time act like it's really strange and disconcerting that HBD holds so much sway around here. I hate to break it to you, but it's largely because you and so many others of similar persuasion make bad arguments and lose constantly.
That's what it's called when you sit around pretending to not understand the questions, or play off contrary evidence with a joke that doesn't answer anything, or just abandon an exchange when it's pointed out that nothing you're saying is supported by the facts. Losing an argument. You do it constantly, and it makes an absolutely mockery of the superior air you work so hard to give off.
somedude
8mo ago
By the way, if you're tired of me and my historical ignorance and sloppy thinking, you can always go ahead and respond to Nybbler here where you actually lost the argument like three days ago. You know people notice when that happens, right? It sort of typifies the anti-HBD discourse on this forum.
somedude
9mo ago
Yeah my bringing up this concrete example of the consequences of disregarding intelligence testing, in response to your meandering asspulled dismissal of IQ, is just a vapid dunk. I'm sure you could totally explain how it doesn't invalidate your worldview if only someone worded things just right. Oh well, maybe next thread.
But seriously, pretty sure last time someone brought it up you just joked that McNamara was a high IQ moron and refused to engage. We all know you've got nothing.
somedude
9mo ago
Gosh I guess this huge historical datapoint about the consequences of disregarding standardized intelligence testing just doesn't exist as long as you continue to dodge it, or someone calls a defense secretary a general, or whatever. Darn, I'm sure your response would have been really good, too.
somedude
9mo ago
Japan is tied with Haiti for height. Environmental effects aren't even pushing in the direction he needs them to.
somedude
9mo ago
You've already been linked this list, but perhaps you missed some of the implications. Allow me to expand upon this by pointing out some fun facts.
-
Jamaica ranks three places higher than the United States.
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Jamaica is also 5cm and like 75 spots on the list ahead of Japan.
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Japan is essentially tied with Haiti.
-
Literally every single Asian country comes in behind Senegal.
All of which raises a huge problem for your position: Assigning more weight to environmental factors makes the genetic gap larger, not smaller. If the likes of Jamaica and Senegal had access to First World medical care and nutrition the same way Japan and South Korea do, how much taller would the former be then? And more to the point, what would nurture advocates blame the enormous difference on then?
The notion that the human genome doesn't have enough variation for large differences in complex polygenic traits between isolated population groups just doesn't hold water. You can ignore this post if you want, but expect to see it again next time you want to bemoan how HBDers won't dig down into the evidence with you.
somedude
9mo ago
Gosh it sure is convenient that being discriminated against takes hundreds of years for a population to recover from. I guess the complete and utter failure of progressive environmental intervention to even begin closing the gap over the course of generations doesn't mean anything. Nope, we have to let them have the reins of society all the way into like Star Trek times before we can notice that nothing they're doing works.
If the descendant effects of discrimination worked the way you need them to work to keep progressive orthodoxy viable, someone on one of these forums would have coughed up some compelling historical examples among other groups at some point in the last X years of having this argument. Instead it's the bog standard usual, the one thing anti-HBD types always seem to have for us: A bunch of just-so excuses for why this or that counter-example involving Jews or Asians totally shouldn't count.
somedude
9mo ago
They made like five Underworld movies and five or six Resident Evils, and they didn't churn all those sequels out to lose money. That's ten or eleven reasonably successful female-led shit kicking action films over a period of fifteen years or so of the early 21st century, named off the top of my head with zero effort. I'm sure there are more. The idea that men don't like women in action movies is just a meme that gets trotted out by PR departments when something woke sucks.
somedude
9mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country#
Sort by height and notice how many shithole Balkan states are toward the top, and how far down you have to scroll to reach even the most prosperous Asian countries. Your hypothesis, that the human genome doesn't have enough variation to allow for meaningful population differences in genetically complex traits, is trivially falsified by the evidence you claim we're not bringing.
somedude
9mo ago
Whatever you say, General McNamara. Last time someone brought his name up in one of these discussions you just cracked a joke and tapdanced your way out of the exchange. Do you have anything more substantive to offer this time?
There's plenty of room in the human genome for large differences in polygenic traits or Japanese and Norwegians would be the same average height.
Edit: Not to pile on to this comment excessively, because this applies equally well to many others, but posts like this were what really turned me into an HBD guy. You present a fully general argument against population level genetic differences in literally anything, apparently without noticing that there are plenty of such differences that are completely uncontroversial.
somedude
9mo ago
We need far more epistemic humility than we have, especially for a claim as strong as HBD.
It would help if the other side, in all the ferocious arguments that have gone on over the years, ever made any observations that were genuinely inconsistent with HBD. Instead it's always a litany of alternative explanations for an HBD-consistent world.
Like I guess Igbo find Nigeria less stressful than even reasonably well-off American black dudes find California or Ohio or whatever? Certainly couldn't be all that vaunted African genetic diversity at work.
There's never a decent competing model of intelligence backed by consistent observation. Just a grab bag of reasons that things might not be as they clearly seem, most of which don't hold up very well.
somedude
9mo ago
Oprah has way too many skeletons in the closet or she'd have run for something eons ago.
somedude
9mo ago
Who do you actually think you're gaslighting here? The list of people eager to call you out after the hoax became obvious was practically endless, and the way you shamelessly feigned blindness to all of it was an instant meme with no moderator help required.
somedude
9mo ago
I was radicalized by interacting with the kind of progressive who calls people racist for not believing Jussie Smollet and then refuses to acknowledge the case ever again once it becomes apparent that they've made a booboo.
somedude
9mo ago
and just makes the ads being served to you dumber.
Calling it, this dude is an alien or something. No human being would communicate this to another as if it were something anyone would ever give one iota of a shit about.
somedude
10mo ago
I'm just going to go straight to another 30-day timeout, and probably a permaban the next time you do this.
You should probably make note in the rules that only Hlynka gets infinite temp bans. People seem to be getting confused.
somedude
10mo ago
The only interesting thing about the accelerationist vs safetyist wars is that for some reason the safetyists actually thought they were still going to matter once big money and the military-industrial complex decided what should be. EA hangers-on writing papers for their pet think tanks are just lucky they're unserious enough people to be sidelined through board wrangling and don't need to be thrown off any bridges.
somedude
10mo ago
I can avow that when I was a crabby internet atheist in my teens/20s, I was not exposed to whichever Christians were disavowing the WBC. 'Why won't Christians denounce the WBC' was a big Atheist talking point for years on end.
Gosh if only someone had come along back then and posted a vague "trust me bro" anecdote about Christians ambiguously denouncing the WBC behind closed doors. That totally would have been a cogent and meaningful response to that particular atheist talking point... right?
If you want to have a standard of 'the denouncements have to be big and publicized enough that their opponents hear them and are convinced', then no, Christians didn't meet that standard back then.
I like how you try to make this standard sound unreasonable. Like if everyone were reasonable they'd just ignore the entire public face of the trans activist movement and instead base their perception on your little post about how you totally saw them denounce their crazies in private once.
The religious types told me that the LGBT squad wouldn't be content to just win and go sit down, but rather would return with a new set of worse and disgusting demands. They were correct. Pointing out that they didn't guess the exact flavor correctly isn't that interesting to me.
I don't need you to "buy it", I'm just telling you why I will absolutely never give the LGBT movement another inch under any circumstances.
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