rae
1yr ago
That’s the current medical consensus (for teenagers - actual pre-pubertal children don’t need hormones).
I can only speak to my personal experience, but I’ve been through childhood gender dysphoria and I wish I had know transition was an option then. I grew up outside of America and before it became engrained in the popular consciousness, so when I was a child the only thing I could come up with was pretend I’d gotten in an accident that cut off my genitals, so doctors would be forced to reassign me. I didn’t go through with it due to low pain tolerance, but that would have been actual (self-)mutilation, and I had no awareness that being trans was a thing so you cannot blame social contagion.
I think it was a mistake for current trans activists to focus on a nebulous concept of gender identity instead of gender dysphoria, which is a serious psychiatric condition that has widespread medical consensus about how to treat it. For people with it, puberty is an unwanted, traumatic experience that ends up giving you a body you despise and that you end up spending tragic sums of money fixing. Perhaps if that was the primary discourse, you’d also get fewer people that only do it because it’s trendy or whatnot.
I suppose I didn’t make that clear enough - I didn’t mean I want to people to see me, know that I’m a trans woman, and then classify me as a woman because they respect my gender identity and that they should thus consider me a woman. Instead I want to pass well enough that people see me and just assume I’m a woman based on how I look, sound and act, and not give them any reason to think I’m actually a feminine man instead of a normal woman. If once they learn of my chromosomes they come to another intellectual conclusion, that’s a different story than a shopkeeper calling me “sir” or “ma’am” when they see me.
Both the modern left and right perspectives on gender is wrong imo. People won’t think you’re a man or a woman based on your chromosomes, but neither will they think that because you have a tag with your pronouns on it. They’ll look at you and their brain will subconsciously put you in one category based on your physical characteristics - with mental effort, you can force yourself to go “oh, this tall broad shouldered person with a deep voice is a woman”, but the brain is still making that snap judgement. Note that it also goes both ways - in a recent video Ben Shapiro instinctively called Hunter Schafer “she” and had to consciously correct himself, in an ironically similar way to how some leftists correct themselves when they misgender someone.
I guess you could call me a gender descriptivist, which is oddly enough a perspective I haven’t seen much of.
rae
1yr ago
I disagree, I couldn’t care less about gender “identity” myself. I have gender dysphoria and the most effective treatment has been to transition. I don’t care about “really” being a woman or not, what matters is, does my body distress me, and do people perceive me in ways that make me uncomfortable? If I look enough like a woman that people assume I am one when they see me, that’s good enough for me.
rae
1yr ago
There is growing evidence that associates being transgender with a cluster of physical disorders linked to a genetic abnormality on chromosome 6p21. An enormous proportion of transgender patients have nearly all of the below conditions:
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Hypermobility/Ehler-danlos syndrome
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impaired thyroid functionality
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gastrointestinal issues of varying severity
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autism
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adhd
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dysautonomia/postural orthopedic tachycardia syndrome
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in natal females, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and PCOS
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some more random markers like acidic urine
Transgender healthcare specialist Dr Powers*, who noticed the above list and corroborated it with other doctors, also managed to successful treat teenage female dysphoric patients with a completely different approach: prescribing them anti androgens. The earlier, the higher the chance of the dysphoria being “cured”. Unfortunately he has not had much luck with natal male patients and the hypothesis is that it could be due to androgen exposure in the womb.
In the light of the above, a hypothesis based on endocrine disruption instead of cultural contagion makes more sense as an explainer of gender dysphoria. Perhaps elevated micro plastics in the environment, or perhaps chemical in the water turning people gay, I don’t know.
But the “wait until they’re adults to do anything” approach for dysphoric teens is clearly not optimal, especially when you have patients that fit so neatly in a cluster, and have some for who transition is not necessary if the endocrine abnormality is treated early enough.
Now the medical treatment needs to be optimised for the best outcomes, sure, but currently the detransitioners are a small minority (2-5%), with most of them detransitioning because of social reasons and not due to desistance of dysphoria, and many retransitioning later. You are thus suggesting throwing 95% of the trans population on the bus to protect 5%.
*Dr Powers is also known for reversing sterility in transgender patients and also enabling normal genital development in younger patients by the use of topical HRT.
rae
1yr ago
I’m a trans person and I don’t really have the attention span to watch a 2 hour video, but I’m familiar with Contrapoints and willing to engage on a few points you mentioned.
What would refusing to acknowledge that “trans women are women” entail? If you use a trans person’s preferred pronouns, don’t treat them differently than you would a cis person of the same gender, and support their right to the healthcare they need, it’s just a fight over definitions about what a woman is, which is largely fruitless - see many LessWrong and SSC posts i.e. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/
However, the terms and arguments you are using would get you quickly lumped in with the transphobic crowd, regardless of your own opinions. Namely - calling gender affirmation surgery “mutilation” and implying that pro-trans right individuals want it done on kids. For most trans people the focus is on hormone replacement therapy, not surgery; allowing trans teenagers access to HRT would actually drastically reduce the need for surgeries for both FtMs and MtFs: FtMs wouldn’t need top surgery (which is almost all what’s done in minors) and MtFs wouldn’t need facial feminisation surgery, tracheal shave, voice feminisation surgery, hair transplants, etc.
You’d also be solving what l think is the crux of the issue that conservatives have with trans women: they find them disturbing to look at and interact with (FtMs, who pass more easily and at worst look like effeminate men, don’t trigger any of that same response as MtFs). People who transition early enough wouldn’t trigger that “uncanny valley” effect and would just pass as their new gender to anyone interacting with them.
Personally it also stems from the fact that I wish I’d transitioned when I was younger, and like many other trans people, would like to spare others from the hell that’s going through the wrong puberty and be stuck with a body you hate that you want to surgically alter.
As a trans woman, this post is like reading the world view of someone from a completely different civilisation. While I did grow up as a male, none of the points you mention about it hit close to home - I don't know how much of it is because I grew up outside of the Anglosphere, and because of my personal background. I was going to write a lengthy quote-by-quote reply, but I think it would suffice to say that all of your points would do as well to convince any pro-trans, liberal person as a trying to convince an atheist vegan to eat meat by invoking the Bible. It's not just the facts you mentioned that are dispute, but the very core values.
The transgender debate is tiresome at this point, but what draws my attention more is the gender essentialist arguments you mentioned, especially with regards to interactions between men and women. I've personally mostly grown up friends with women (although it has varied depending on the years), as they were a lot friendlier and I had more shared interests, and with none of the issues your described. I'm not even gay (I used to be 50-50 bisexual prior to transitioning, now it's about 95-5 in favor of men).
Would you rather your daughter go on a sleepover alone with a masculine lesbian friend, or a very feminine gay boy? What about a trans guy of the same age, vs. a trans girl, both being straight (i.e., the trans guy is attracted to women and the trans girl to men).
I have often been the only male in a group and this has not happened. If anything, I would be vastly more awkward in a traditionally masculine men-only group, due to having few interests in common, and I would be far more sexually attracted to them. When I was with a group of male friends and an attractive guy I had a crush on joined, I developed those behaviours you mention - white knighting, favouritism, always taking his side, etc. It has nothing to do with the sex of the person, and you should learn to deal with it rather than avoid the opposite sex altogether.
This just seems sad. Are you clearly not capable of having deep one-on-one time with a woman without it being potentially sexual? I'm sexually attracted to a lot of my male friends and I had to learn to resist the temptation, and was able to develop strong friendships with people I was attracted to regardless of their gender.
I've shared beds and hotel rooms with both men and women with no issue. I'm bi and could potentially have sex with anyone I spent the night with - should my boyfriend be anxious whenever I'm alone with literally anyone? Especially in my liberal circles, a lot of people are bi, or open-minded enough to have sex with a trans woman.
I was a feminine bisexual man and this was not my experience. If anything, women were even more interested in me, both sexually and as friends, once I became an adult. Flip it around - wouldn't you rather have your girlfriend be interested in the same masculine hobbies you have, than feminine ones you have 0 interest in? It's the same with women.
That I don't get. We gender people based on secondary sexual characteristics, not biological sex. If you see someone who looks like Hunter Schafer or Emma Ellingsen (https://aschehoug.no/media/catalog/author/e/m/emma_ellingsen_foto_jakob_landvik_mg_7819.jpg), your brain will go "she" and you will have to correct yourself. If you're meeting Emma at a restaurant and you say "I'm meeting a blond guy" to the waiter, do you think you'll be pointed in the right direction? If you're mugged by Buck Angel, are you going to point and yell "catch her, that woman robbed me!"? Even Ben Shapiro had to correct himself when he subconsciously referred to Hunter by she/her.
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