pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
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User ID: 464
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Oh, wow. That’s very informative, thank you.
But then, there were other videos which supposedly showed JDAM explosions that looked quite cinematic.
(It’s also my understanding that JDAM is a conversion kit rather than an actual weapon’s name, so I’m taking it with a huge dose of skepticism)
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
The concessions Hamas asks for are “go back to Europe or the sea”. They will only agree to a tactical truce, this is their raison d’être. They don’t want to create an independent state, and they could have done this for about two decades now if they did. There’s nothing to recognize in Gaza. Ending the blockade will mean more weapons in the hands of genocidal maniacs. So now what?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
This doesn’t seem to correspond to the claimed body-count nor the explosion videos, which seemed massive. So Hamas was lying about the deaths, that makes sense, but the videos seemed real enough - so what gives? I’m honestly confused now.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Normally a warning is given, making it so much less likely to actually be an Israeli attack.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
What do you propose Israelis do, that doesn’t condemn us to total destruction?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
I don’t think that playing into the “Jews poison the wells” trope so literally is a good idea.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
The first part is true - they’re not being offered Israeli citizenship and probably never will be. But they did have a chance at complete autonomy in 2005. They just preferred to choose Hamas and Jihad over their own good. It’s a valid choice, but it does have consequences- especially when that Jihad is being waged against your much-more-powerful neighbor who can bomb you to hell on a coin flip.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Both of those narratives you presented are both wrong historically and non-existent in popular conception.
While it’s true that “Jewish land” pre 1948 was mostly fairly purchased, it’s a small part of what eventually became the state of Israel. Those borders were decided by war, but the initial purchases did set the starting point for the war.
Conversely, Palestinians aren’t Bedouin. They weren’t so much spread out etc., as much as they just lived in other places than they currently do. A lot of their assets were taken from them by Israel after the war, including private property. Keep in mind that there wasn’t a Palestinian state if some kind, it’s more of a personal grievance on a national scale.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Only if you believe in Jihad and martyrdom. They’re not exactly rational.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
I see. Tying up children and setting them on fire, raping women to death, those are justified acts of self defense according to you. In that case, let me plainly state that your conclusion invalidates your logic - it is abhorrent.
I will continue to advocate in my own country for the complete annihilation of Gazan culture. People like you only strengthen my resolve.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Alright, does that hold to every people? Should Americans go back to Europe? Should all the Al-Masris in Gaza go back to Egypt?
Actually, is the population in Gaza responsible for what happened on October 7th?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
You’re not getting good replies, and it’s a bit of a hard question to answer honestly. The question itself is very politically loaded and thus politically incorrect to investigate, and so there’s a dearth of available quality information.
It’s clear that as Jews moved from Europe to Ottoman Syria and later to Mandatory Palestine, they brought jobs and immigration along with them. However, this process was spread over roughly 100 years, so it’s hard to find a peak. Looking at demographic estimates of the region, e.g. what’s on wikipedia you can see that the local Arab population roughly doubled in the 25 years prior to the war of ‘47-‘49. This is not impossible given a high enough birth rate and improving health care that came along with British rule, so it’s not clear cut evidence one way or the other.
Further complicating the issue is that migration out of Mandatory Palestine is not counted.
Some evidence of Palestinian origins are in their last names. Al-Masri (Egyptian) is a common last name in Gaza and southern Israel, where you’d expect it - but that doesn’t mean too much after a few generations. Along those lines are also Bushnak (Bosnian), Mugrabi (Magreb, like me!), Halabi (Syrian), and probably more that I’m not familiar with.
Personally, I think it’s less than half of Palestinians world-wide who are actually “originally” from that specific strip of land, meaning that the person who left in ‘47 had a grandfather born there too. But I also don’t think it matters that much, to be honest.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
That’s something of a non-sequieter, I’d say. You’re a different profile, care to answer my question re: group responsibility?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Frankly, I don’t believe you. You’ve already stated that you think Israel “should never have existed”, and that we should “forgive Hitler” - whatever forgiveness to a dead man even means. Maybe he should apologize first. Of course, I have no way to prove that one way or another.
But if you really are new to the subject, I ask you to consider: before 1947, Jews were spread out all over mandatory Palestine. In Hebron, in east Jerusalem, in Kfar Etzion in Samaria. After 1949, every place conquered by the Jordanians and Egyptians - formerly mandatory Palestine - suddenly became judenfrei. The Jews were all mysteriously gone. On the other side of the armistice line, there still existed a mixed population. In fact, this happened all over the Middle East, where Jewish communities would suddenly vanish from Muslim countries. So tell me, please, why do you think these countries have any right to exist? They also have their own sectarian violence going on until today, of course, where minorities have not been totally wiped out yet.
(That article is awful, by the way. The kind of foreign misunderstanding that’s close to getting it, but then misses the mark so widely it almost makes me want to defend the government I was just protesting against. He actually thinks anyone wants to shut down electricity on Shabbat? Jesus, how about shutting up?)
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Very impressive, honestly.
So what is your position re: group responsibility? Are the Israelis of the time, or even today, accountable for the alleged actions of a few?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
There are, they’re just in Iran and in Lebanon, like you said.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
I was surprised to find out he’s not Jewish, with that last name. Turns out he’s from a christian Arab family. In that case, his people were already cleansed from Gaza. The people still in Gaza are his people’s killers.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
In that unsearchable 270 page master’s thesis from the ‘70s, what page is your quote from? Did you just happen to stumble upon this, and read it at your leisure?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
Almost all Arab muslims in Gaza, Judea and Samaria are Sunni. Some in Islamic Jihad had converted to Shia following their Iranian supporters, but that’s about it as far as I know. Christians have been pretty much cleansed from Gaza, there are less than 2,000 remaining.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
You’ve just now looked up the ‘48 war, then came up with a bunch of quotes to support your new-found opinion that just happens to mirror the same talking points as every other pro-Hamas person in the world? Is that supposed to be believable?
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
More fighting, all the time, no matter what. Unlike Hamas which does believe the in a tactical truce now and then.
Also, IIRC Jihad started its ties with Iran earlier than Hamas (which is more Muslim Brotherhood affiliated), and some have even converted from Sunni to Shia.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
This is not totally irrational in the Gazan case, since we do see other armed organizations pop up to resist Hamas from an even more extreme Islamist position- such as Islamic Jihad.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
No need for conscience soothing here. A culture that produces this kind of violence has no right to exist, as far as I’m concerned.
In any case, I’ve seen no evidence that the people of Gaza are actually ideologically opposed to Hamas, and plenty to the contrary.
pm_me_passion
אֲנָשִׁים נֹשְׂאֵי מָגֵן וְחֶרֶב וְדֹרְכֵי קֶשֶׁת וּלְמוּדֵי מִלְחָמָה
1yr ago
“You cannot keep two million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect peace.”
This is entirely correct. It glosses over the fact that “the conditions people in Gaza are living in” is the result of their chosen policies - namely, putting resources into Jew-killing efforts rather than nation-building efforts - but it’s still entirely true.
Given that those people cannot be allowed into Israel, and that they don’t show any signs of trying to improve their own living conditions, the only way out of this situation is for them to simply be somewhere else. Preferably they could go to many different somewhere elses, such that their culture could be diluted in their hosts’ culture until finally it disappears.
So now the story is pivoting from "Israel killed 500 people in a hospital" to "Israel maybe releases a cropped image and sus audio", instead of "Hamas lied preposterously and all of western media went with the lie"? Good pivot, from a PR stance, for the pro-child killers, I guess.
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