Stingray3906
4mo ago
So there's a musical on Broadway, called Suffs, about the Women's Suffrage Movement in the US in the 1910s. It won a couple Tony's last month (https://playbill.com/article/shaina-taub-wins-best-original-score-at-2024-tony-awards-for-suffs). Alas, even the stage is not immune from impromptu protests, as a far-left group of demonstrators interrupted the show and unfurled a banner for approximately 20 seconds before being escorted out. (https://apnews.com/article/suffs-disrupted-broadway-whitewash-05c6df87a220c253b66807f312948a80).
The group's website (https://www.cancelsuffs.com) alleges that the show is whitewashing the history of the suffrage movement. They point out two historical main characters Alice Paul and Carrie Chapman Catt excluded Black women from the NWP and believe white supremacy would be strengthened by the movement. They also bring up Woodrow Wilson's efforts to segregate the federal government and his screening of The Birth of a Nation while the suffrage movement was still ongoing. They also suggest that the 19th Amendment opened the door to women-centered factions of the KKK.
Has anyone here seen the musical? What are everyone's thoughts about the depiction of controversial historical events as entertainment? Is there any merit to this far-left group's position?
Stingray3906
4mo ago
They don't really have anything to lose, with two major party candidates that are unpopular, despite people saying they will still vote for one of them.
Stingray3906
4mo ago
Oh yes, they will attempt to, but I don't think they will ever succeed.
Stingray3906
4mo ago
The problem I have with this decision isn't the decision itself, but the fact that the average person now has to try and understand the complexity of the decision and rely on the (mostly biased) media to tell them how to think through it. I think too many Americans lack the ability to comprehend how nuanced and complicated our government is and will run with whatever headlines and one-liners they emotionally identify with.
I have yet to see an objective, plain-language, sixth-grade-reading-level breakdown of what all of this means from any media outlet.
Stingray3906
4mo ago
I think that we will see a very concerted effort for the next several years to get a constitutional amendment clarifying that any elected official of the US is not immune from criminal prosecution whatsoever. Wouldn't surprise me if that initiative started even before Election Day.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
I think it depends on how much of a support network exists in the community. If I take a job that doesn't give me enough money to afford basic necessities, will there be a food pantry, farmer's market, cooperative drug store, etc. available?
Stingray3906
5mo ago
The DNC always appears to support RCV unless it's an election year. Then they're hell-bent on telling people to vote for the lesser of two evils. Why not campaign on RCV and voting blue?
Stingray3906
5mo ago
In the US, ranked choice voting is often, but not always, associated with the Democratic Party, at least in the sense of pushing for it in Red / Purple, but not Blue, states.
As I understand it, there are Democrats (purposefully with a capital D) that do not support RCV because they believe it will draw voters away from the DNC.
Is the problem that people aren't good critical thinkers, or that you don't like the product of their thinking?
There aren't any good critical thinkers, and if there are, they mask it with their ad homs and personal or partisan attacks.
Polarized hardline stances are, in fact, sometimes the correct response to a sufficiently fraught situation. It seems to me that we're in such a situation.
I don't have a problem with this. What I do have a problem with, is approaching folks on the opposite side of the argument with dehumanization, with bickering, and disrespect.
Like, if the spat that happened in that committee hearing last week between AOC and MTG happened in my presence, I'd tell them they're both wrong for attacking each other and walk away. Like, you wouldn't act like that in public if you weren't a politician, so why is it OK when you're in government? And I know that's very naive to think, but we're talking basic human decency here, even towards people like MTG who say vile and disgusting things every day.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
I will say this. The DNCs platform is closer to what my views tend to be, which I would describe as a bit of social democrat and a bit of libertarian. Not hard-in-the-paint, taxation is theft libertarian, but individual rights-supporting, freedom of the individual-supporting libertarian. From the social democrat side, I take support for universal healthcare, gun control reform, and higher taxes on the wealthy.
That having been said, I won't vote straight Democrat because I believe the DNC would not entertain some of my personal ideas -- for example, a complete overhaul of our election system, an independent nonpartisan commission for confirming federal judges and cabinet members, term limits on members of Congress and a Citizen's Assembly. I don't believe their career members or their donors would want anything that could threaten their ability to stay in power.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
What do you have in mind?
Stingray3906
5mo ago
I just don't see the need for doom if all you're looking for is a normie centrist. Your dreams aren't unachievable. Move to a suburb and start volunteering for local campaigns.
There aren't any normies centerist candidates in the suburb that I live in. And no one wants to vote for a normie centerist because the don't take polarized hard-line stances. No one appears to want to elect critical thinkers.
It's not so much that he's a Republican that would attract me to vote for him, but the fact that he (allegedly) is willing to engage in bipartisanship.
At this juncture, I would vote for any decent human being that isn't MAGA and isn't beholden to their party's interests. Maybe I'm asking for the moon, IDK. I'm just sick of all this shit. I'm 30 years old and there's elected people acting like out-of-control toddlers.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
Well, then in that case, I choose not to go to the ballot box at all.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
Voting for Biden is letting the Democratic Party know you are okay with them not raising the min wage to a living wage. It's letting them know you are okay with record military budgets while homelessness spiked 12% in one year and that you are OK with sending billions of dollars in US bombs and bullets to Israel to blow the heads and limbs off little children and babies while leveling 70% of Gaza. Sometimes in a democracy, the strongest word you can say is NO.
As if Republicans didn't balloon our military budget and get us into "endless wars" in the 00's. SMH
You don't have to choose between genocide and a felon.
You're right. I choose no one. The Internet hates this one simple trick.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
Here is an example of a candidate I would consider supporting. According to his bio, he seems to be running to genuinely represent his district and won't play partisan games. https://www.robert-smith.org/
Stingray3906
5mo ago
Well, that is an incredibly bleak outlook, but also sadly true, I feel.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
Yeah, I may do that instead of leaving it blank, especially since SSCReader says it would likely not be counted.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
I guess I'm looking for something that most people don't want: politicians who are authentic human beings. They all seem to be robots parroting whatever the most recently trending culture war issues are and then saying what they think the public wants. None of them give a shit insofar as what keeps them in office.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
The way our system works in practice is that our votes are only for causes.
Correct, and I feel that votes should be for the right candidate, instead.
Your view hinges on the idea that a blank ballot is more meaningful than a 0.0000001% influence on the country. But it’s not. No one will care about your blank ballot.
That's fine, that doesn't bother me.
It’s healthy to be disillusioned and not give a shit about the election, and that’s why it’s only every so often that you have to vote.
I would give a shit about the election if the major parties weren't so polarized and concerned with circlejerking and if minor party and unaffiliated voters had equal representation on the ballot. Thus, I disagree with your last sentence and instead suggest that you shouldn't vote for anyone.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
But why would you believe this? After all, it's those same democratic processes that gave us our current parties and politicians. Have you considered that maybe this is the inevitable outcome of the system and its incentives?
I have not considered that. However, just because the outcome is inevitable doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.
What if modern democracy isn't actually compatible with having "decent human beings up for election"? Consider that perhaps the nature of American politics makes the current crop you find so distasteful unavoidable. That this unfortunate outcome is simply what American democracy is.
Well, yes, I agree that it isn't compatible. That's why I would hope that undervoting across the board might help communicate that we need to come back to basics -- mutual respect, recognizing the humanity of every individual, etc.
What if some better democracy, with better candidates, simply isn't achievable, and the only choice is between the current dysfunctional, partisan democracy that has you disillusioned; or abandoning democracy altogether?
Then perhaps democracy as a system of government should be retooled or abandoned.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
I'm wondering if you misunderstood. I'm saying, folks should go to their polling place, ask for a ballot and intentionally submit it blank. You still get marked down as having voted, and those ballots would conceivably get counted along with marked ballots under voter turnout stats, but it wouldn't be counted in the results.
Stingray3906
5mo ago
Yes lol. Thanks, I just edited it.
I am what you might call a disillusioned voter. Over the past year I have become passionately convinced that elected officials, in all levels of government, and irrespective of the major party they affiliate with, are not working with Americans' best interests in mind. They are more concerned with taking personal jabs at each other than they are working together to solve problems affecting us at the local, state and federal level. They only take into account the needs of the most vocal, influential, wealthy or powerful individuals. They only care about staying in office as long as possible, at any cost, instead of taking the time to listen and truly understand their constituents needs. They all regurgitate the same talking points, how the other party is evil and you can't trust them, instead of being bridge-builders and leaders. I could go on.
I've become so convicted in this, that I believe the best way to vote is to cast a completely black ballot.
Reasons:
-Your ballot is still counted, and will contribute to voter turnout statistics.
-You have the right to cast a vote for no one.
-You don't have to worry about picking the lesser of two evils, since you're not making a selection at all.
-Your vote for no one affirms that you believe democratic processes are important, and your lack of selection communicates dissatisfaction with the major parties. A sizable voter turnout with no candidates selected may cause them to change their platform to appeal to dissatisfied voters.
Arguments against this that I am not persuaded by:
"But that means the [party/candidate I oppose] will win." Yes, that will likely happen. No, it does not bother me, nor does it pursuade me. And that will be the case unless and until we are able to get more effective leaders on the ballot. It may very well take a darker period in our country's history to wake enough people up to the issues with the two-party system.
"But aren't there things that [major party] supports that you also support?" Yes, but I do not wish to involve myself in partisan politics, anymore. I believe that candidate selection should be based on their character, their ability to be charitable, kind, compassionate, driven, and most importantly, a leader who is willing to actively listen. I want nothing to do with the whole, "the other party is bad so you must vote for me" BS. I could care less about political parties at this point. Get more decent human beings up for election and then I'll consider voting for them.
"But you should vote to support [social issues]." I'm not voting to support a cause. I'm voting to find the most qualified candidate.
"It's anti-democratic not to pick a candidate." It's anti-democratic to not show up at the polls. It is completely democratic to cast a blank ballot. You're freely communicating that no candidates are fit to hold office.
"Then vote for an independent or minor party candidate." Independant candidates are not always on the ballot and with the stranglehold the major parties have on our election processes, minor parties will never gain a meaningful foothold in public offices. Ranked choice voting and citizen-funded elections would help, but no major party candidate would support it because it means the major parties would have less influence.
"But you need to vote this way or with this perspective, because reasons." No I don't. I have the right to cast my vote how I see fit, just as you do. I'm really not a fan of collective ideologies surrounding voting.
Other than the above, I am willing to hear any other arguments.
I think there is some merit to the opinion that a Broadway musical is not an appropriate venue to tell such controversial stories. It's am entertainment product, first and foremost. It exists to make money before anything else. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to put such a show on as a truly non-fictional retelling at a museum or non-profit cultural center, where they have staff that can evaluate the script, characters and cast, sets, music etc. to be period correct and sensitive to context.
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