SoonToBeBanned
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User ID: 2653
If you're surrounded by people who would gladly see you dead, it would be a fatal mistake to broadcast to them that they can kill you without fear of retribution.
It's interesting you don't seem to even think to apply this same mode of thought to Palestinians.
Also I strongly doubt the reason the Gaza attack happened was because Hamas was mistaken in believing they could GTA it and dodge any sort of counter attack. If one is to believe the conspiracy theory that this is related to closening Israeli-Saudi relations one might think they were even counting on it.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
For capitalism, I see leftists and socialists blame everything on capitalism.
If you lived in North Korea or the USSR why would "Communism" or The Party and the society it created not touch nearly everything politically wrong? Capitalism is responsible for the life we live. If it's not the best of all possible worlds, a society of angels, then yes some level of blame should be left at its feet.
This is especially true for the Marxist and therefore often socialist conception of Capitalism and society. Where everything flows downstream of economics as a first mover, including things like religion, romance, and local custom.
[citation needed] that what Israel government is doing is worse than what Hamas doing, and more deserving sanctions/invasion.
I'm not that person but as of writing:
Palestinian dead: 3,785
Israeli dead: 1,300
So by that objective measure Israel has killed more and is therefore "worse," if killing is a problem worth condemning. And that ratio is sure to get worse. Surely some of those Palestinian dead are children and attractive under 40 women, if that helps. To put it more provocative (honest) and bluntly, Israelis/Jews are the more prolific merciless baby killers. They just objectively are.
I personally always keep that stat in mind whenever I see someone try to pull the "omg atrocities" sympathy card by counting bodies. A bizarre play for Israeli siders because the Palestinians will always have the Israelis beat in an oppression and body count olympics. It only really makes sense for Jewish chauvinists that genuinely believe a Jewish life is more valuable than a goy, but most that pull said card aren't so it remains bizarre to me.
A noticing things side note (another post like this, for me).
Mia Shem pleaded for her release in the first hostage video released by Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam Brigades
Noticing this, and the fact she's hot, I immediately fired up youtube to see what the hostage video. But I couldn't find a single untainted pure source. All early results give mainstream news organizations that start with some jackass news anchor ready to tell me what to think. Every single one. I then go to twitter and search "Mia Shem video" and get exactly what I want with no difficulty.
I'm not sure I understand the implications of this or what to make of it. I've long entertained the idea that basically all mainstream media is biased and trash. Especially post 2016 where Trump derangement syndrome seemed to drive even respectable outfits off the deep end. I don't even watch or read the news anymore. Has anyone else noticed how news media won't give straight information even when it would be helpful in lieu of writing things out long form with possible interpretation? E.g. if they are quoting "someone said something" they won't just straight link or archive the direct twitter post but describe it, possibly piecemeal. Nor will they use graphs or direct quote stats with the possible exception of pew polls. I have, and it both annoys and weirds me out. But this is extra and really got my nogging jogging. What sort of institutional values does this indicate where they absolutely refuse to just report and let me decide? Why is Twitter and telegram so superior?
Other side note. For a long time I wasn't even sure males had been kidnapped. Everyone just wanted to talk about Shani Louk. Eventually I looked it up and found some indication that they had. Looking at a list there does seem bias towards women (wonder why), but still the men are there. I think the total domination of hot women in the dialog of hostages says something. Dontcha think?
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
This happens to bring up one of the more interesting things I've seen in this conflict that I've never had an opportunity to talk about anywhere. The convenient erasure of Palestinian Christians.
The political motivations for pro-Israeli apologists and their "red tribe" coding should be obvious. To hear people talk there are nothing but Muslims. Israel (Jews, let's be honest) discriminates against Christians, and atheists, just as much as Muslims. All would ideally be purged from the "Holy Land." I always wonder if the ostensibly Christian Israel fanboys have just successfully purged this from their mind or if they are genuinely unaware.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
Did you know there's a big aquifer for the Levant that unfortunately, for Israel, heavily falls into West Bank territory? What Israel does is just station wells and military in the West Bank to suck it up anyway. In return they provide what is needed by the Palestinian Authority in good faith, supposedly.
Now I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of every single peace deal and have no desire to learn. But water rights is one example of something I don't think Israel has every budged much on that doesn't get talked about much in public. Why would they give sovereign rights to water in the Middle East to their sworn racial enemies? I wouldn't take any deal that had the Israelis feeding and watering me if I were Palestinian, in turn.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
You are asking a disingenuous question based on a highly dishonest and propagandized conception of the situation. Thought in short, yes, kind of.
You are speaking as if Gaza and Israel are two sovereign states. Gaza, the state, attacked a bunch of civilians in an act of war against the other state, and Israel provides electricity, water, food out of humanitarian kindness despite all this antagonism. Talk about stupid and evil, huh? Really biting the hand that feeds.
Israel has been economically sieging Gaza well before any of this started. They don't easily allow in concrete, medical supplies, whatever into a one of the most densely populated areas in the world that's about half the size of New York City. They violently refuse to allow Gaza/Palestine right to self determination and occasionally bomb the place in flower wars. Gaza has never been allowed to have their own power generation, water, economy for trade, food, etc. Pragmatically, Israel has had to be involved with Gaza's infrastructure if they are not committing to full public ethnic cleansing/genocide. It's a bit amazing they have functional infrastructure as it is, and anyway this makes it a unique situation since there's not a lot of world places I can think of like this. West Berlin during the Cold War is one of the only things I can think of.
An analogy would be more like a bank robber that took control of food, water, and potty breaks for the hostages. And then the bank robber expects praise for "providing" like he's doing a favor. He's not killing, probably, because the police outside will get angry - not out of altruism. Now the robber is denying food unless the hostages complies with the heist.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
but they were regularly forced out, resettled, exiled
Got a historical source? Because to me this sounds like the popular myth that Jews were exiled by the Romans which caused The Diaspora. No such thing actually happened, as far as I know. Hadrian did declare Jerusalem, what was left of it, a "pagan city" (whatever that means. I've not been able to figure out) in vengeance after the Bar Kokhba revolt/war. But that's not a mass exodus from everywhere in the Levant.
Probably the majority of locals converted to Christianity then Islam successively over the centuries, but I don't know that for sure. It does lead to the question why "diaspora" Jews were so much more vibrant in resisting conversion and building a unique Jewish identity, but that's an edgy taboo question for another time.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
Not really though. The Jewish population of Palestine/Israel prior to Zionist immigration starting in the 1880s is irrelevantly small. Jews basically don't exist as a people in the area before then - at least in contrast. If you want a solid number, 15,000 is a census of Jews from the Ottoman period before Zionism. Compare with the 7 million Jews there today.
Wiki (which I wouldn't completely trust) has a line apparently that nicely sums it up:
In the late 19th century, 99.7% of the world's Jews lived outside the region, with Jews representing 2–5% of the population of the Palestine region.
Israeli Jews are fundamentally an immigrant people. Good luck finding a single one that has ancestry in Israel before 1880. The conflict is a colonial conflict of an outside people ethnically displacing the local natives. If you don't understand that you are not really understanding major keys to the whole thing.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
I really don't understand how you can see a bunch of men slaughter innocent civilians at a music festival, kill innocent civilians just going about their day, capture women and children as hostages, and parade dead bodies around on trucks and upload it to social media and not have sympathy for Israelis. Yet these people are more or less saying Israel deserved this and the real victims of this will be Palestine.
Israel does deserve it. They started it, which despite what legions of corrupt teachers have tried to say to the contrary, actually matters a lot. As of writing and last checking Israeli dead 700-1,000 / Palestinian dead 900. And that's just recently. By objective measure Israelis have killed more Palestinian women & children (tm) than vice versa. Soon the Gazan dead will eclipse the Israelis without argument and there is sure to be some hot young Wonderful Women in the bundle to boot. I'm mildly and darkly curious how the narrative will 180 when that happens. I don't know what's going through the heads of vaguely self aware people when they resort to counting bodies for sob story moral victory points.
I guess this is the inevitable outcome of the oppressor/oppressed decolonize framework so many of them have adopted.
Okay, I don't know quite where to start with this. This looks like the spectre of the warmed over "Cultural Marxism" myth/conspiracy theory. Certain reactionary conservative types can't seem to let this meme go. Not only is it wrong (that's not what Marxism is and the dastardly Frankfurt School did not even the concept of oppressors), it doesn't make sense. This idea is ridiculously simple and generic yet some people keep speaking of it like they've discovered some secret.
Is Lord of the Rings a Marxist and/or oppressor/oppressed story and liberal brain virus? Sauron is clearly an oppressor. No, it's a universal human value. What is the number one whine about the USSR? That it was mean and oppressive. Are anti-Communist Conservatives Marxist?
It makes no sense to tolerate evil if you have equal or greater power. However evil that has superior power is a problem. Aka an oppressor/oppressed dynamic. It's just common logic. If someone invaded your house to steal/rape and you have a gun whatever. If they have a gun and you don't, now the oppressed are sympathetic.
Also Israel is a colonial oppressor. That's just facts. Do the native Palestinians have power/freedom do get Israeli invaders out of their homeland and stop making them miserable? No.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
Skimming that source, it is ridiculous and not reliable at all. In addition to being shady and biased it's also clearly trying to lie. It does not mostly say what you or its own headline claims to say.
You are also probably lying since an intelligent and honest person should know better and be aware of how disingenuous they are being.
How reliable is an anonymous eyewitness account?
In other words, not at all, obviously.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
but I did see a young woman's body piled upon a bunch of corpses in the back of a pickup being spat upon and laughed at by multiple individuals in a parade.
You did not see this. If you are referring to the video I think you're referring to, which people keep repeating as if it's not 1 data point. You are repeating headlines you read uncritically about a video that does not demonstrate what you said. Video (NSFW). Apparently 2 guys did spit, never noticed until now.
SoonToBeBanned
1yr ago
But...isnt' Egypt participating in this open air imprisonment?
Yes. And so what? Do you honestly think the Egyptians would still be blockading Gaza if not for Israel and its willful influence? Like what's your mental model of a hypothetical world where there is no Israel but still a Gaza like situation and Egypt. How and why do you figure the Egyptians would still try to blockade Gaza of their own independent will?
What you really seem to be doing here is trying desperately to downplay or remove Israeli agency and moral ownership of their own sippenhaft blockade. Because obviously it's kind of bad propaganda and morally difficult if you're unblinkingly honest about it. Israel isn't really doing what it's doing, others are too! Yes they are doing what they set out to do.
Let us consider the case of the Mavi Marmara aka the "Freedom Flotilla." (Side note: if you don't know what this is and have free time to kill I would advise to skim watch the raw video I provided or find a similar undoctored and uncut version of the original on the ground live broadcast. Come to your own conclusion before you read about it and get a narrative fed to you. You might run into moments where you will say "hey that's not so nice of those brownie muslamics" but they will be your own honest opinions. That's very precious.) One of the OG media blackpilling moments, for me. In it a flotilla of boats checked before hand for any weapons like guns tried to run through the blockade on Gaza to symbolically provide random supplies like children's books. The IDF intercepted with violent force and shot/executed 9 demonstrators. For the crime of independently exchanging goods freely among actors the Israeli state used lethal violent force. All well 13 years before current events.
Who forced Israel to do this? No one. It's a very obvious demonstration of a serious will to blockade and economically starve Gazans. Israel means to do what it is doing. Gaza is an open air blockaded prison because Israel and Israel alone is working hard and killing to make it that way.
What are you talking about? A recent symbolic Senate resolution:
Passed 97-0. Passed the House 412-10 (6 voted present).
And also meanwhile: "President Biden has asked lawmakers for almost $106 billion in funding for Israel, Ukraine, countering China in the Indo-Pacific, and operations on the southern U.S. border."
The mainstream Democrats and the American deep state are ridiculously in the tank for Israel.
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