But there’s at least some mainstream thought such as some research here including citations in the intro that suggests nonviolent protests were associated with both successful campaigns and shift in vote share more often and more strongly than violent ones.
Nonviolent protests, especially back then, ran under good cop/bad cop where the violent protests made the nonviolent ones effective.
There's also the fact that "nonviolent" and "doesn't cause harm" aren't the same thing. Protests in the 60s were absolutely meant to cause harm to members of the outgroup. Telling your employer that you tweeted in support of assassination is a nonviolent protest (and so is firing someone for that tweet).
Jiro
4mo ago
If woke cancellation tactics were already forms of disproportionate retribution against random unknown people, how is adopting the same tactic on the right going to result in a better equilibrium?
It decreases the overall acceptability of disproportionate retribution among people on the other side. It's the same reason why woke cancellation is a threat in the first place: it affects few people directly, but it intimidates a lot more.
Jiro
4mo ago
LoTT isn't powerless. But she is less powerful than, say, the New York Times or Washington Post, and doesn't have the resources of such organizations.
Claiming that someone is less powerful than someone else doesn't make them powerless.
Jiro
4mo ago
I have yet, however, to see any of these voluntary media consumption theories actually pan out in any empirical fashion into any sort of causal relationship.
What do you think of the high rate of trans associated with social media consumption by kids?
Jiro
4mo ago
There is a rule about posting on multiple subjects. Past some point, if he keeps doing this he becomes a single issue poster.
She's positing the counterfacual of "if a rightist made an attempt on Biden's life". but she's making things up when she then decides how conservatives would behave in response. The behavior of conservatives isn't a premise of the counterfactual, it's an assumption about what conservatives are like in the real world.
Jiro
4mo ago
If a rightist made an attempt on Biden’s life there would tons of conservative forums and even users here making essentially the same comments inverted
You are making this up.
"The left actually did this. Well, the right didn't actually do this, but I'm sure they would do it if they had the chance!" is not very good reasoning.
Jiro
4mo ago
A lot of things violate equality or hurt the kids other than just saying the kids can't be citizens. What if one kid has a car given to him by his parents, but another kids had parents who stole a car and gave it to him? Should we refuse to confiscate the car and return it to its owner on the grounds that the kid didn't commit the theft and taking it away makes the kids in the two families unequal? What if one set of parents is just ordinary criminals, should we refuse to send them to jail for bank robbery because doing so impacts the lfe of the innocent kid?
If you don't "capriciously punish" the kids, you create a moral hazard that encourages parents to illegally immigrate (or steal cars, or rob banks).
Jiro
4mo ago
I can see where that analogy might work for homeless advocates, but how does it work for warhawks? Are warhawks advocating something that's equivalent to giving up your bank account to thieves?
Jiro
4mo ago
If that's what the shoplifting means in the metaphor, then we could just catch the criminal shoplifting because they do it all the time, and setting up a sting operation instead of observing actual shoplifting brings no benefit at all.
Jiro
4mo ago
That said, DeepSeek seem to not be very sold on socialism as a universal principle
Neither is China.
"Socialism" would be a code word for "whatever the Chinese government wants", not for actual socialism. The results wouldn't be very socialist, but probably wouldn't tell you about the Tienanmen Square massacre either.
Jiro
4mo ago
If you're trying to learn about a suspected crackpot, a piece of paper saying "yes" will get the point across even faster than that. But the piece of paper and Rationalwiki will both be bad at eliminating false positives.
Jiro
4mo ago
Okay, let's split some hairs - scientific journal is an institution, probably has an annual budget of literally tens of thousands of dollars that it can pay ramen-eating graduate students to review papers with, whereas libsoftiktok is an influencer with 3 million subscribers
Dollars are sort of important things.
Jiro
4mo ago
You can't even (as people in this thread claim) act like a helpless normie, because helpless normies don't give a shit about due diligence.
There are degrees of due diligence and degrees of how much effort you'd expect hoaxers to put into hoaxes, so this doesn't follow. It's not all or nothing.
Jiro
4mo ago
It's the difference between a woman wearing dresses as clothes and a crossdresser wearing dresses because he gets sexually excited at it. Furries aren't a type of transhumanists.
Jiro
4mo ago
"...but there are good reasons why a regular person would want to use Ashley Madison,"
Ashley Madison's advertising was clearly aimed towards people for whom using it would be unethical, and the vast majority of users were such people. Ethical edge cases like some openly poly person who wanted to use it are a rounding error.
It's like claiming that it's okay for someone to be in the hitman business because if you're trapped in a building with a killer on the loose, you can call up a hitman and get him to kill the killer. Maybe, but that's a very noncentral hitman job.
Whenever there was a new hack, a new release, a new doxx, it seemed like no one was asking, "Is this type of hacking/releasing/doxxing okay or bad in general?"
By this reasoning, we should see everyone saying "well, this time TracingWoodgrains collected information about our enemies, so that's fine". This was not the reaction.
Jiro
4mo ago
No, it is not how every social group works. And you know this because your hoax involved fake school teachings, and school is a kind of social group where the teachers do, in fact, have leverage beyond just getting mad at their charges.
Jiro
4mo ago
The reasoning isn't too far from requiring warhawks to register for the draft.
Okay, a rob-bank-hawk is someone who thinks we should arrest and jail bank robbers. Do you think that rob-bank-hawks should be required to become security guards (or maybe become bank robbers)?
We've already established that LoTT didn't recognize the in-jokes, so I'd answer "obviously not familiar enough".
Jiro
4mo ago
Give me a break.
A normie would think "if that's a hoax, that would require a huge, huge, amount of effort. Nobody would go through that much effort to pull a hoax on a random person". That's why she didn't figure out that it was fake.
You can fool anyone by being a weird person from the Internet, if you spend enough time tricking someone who isn't familiar with weird people on the Internet.
Jiro
4mo ago
On one hand, yeah, that's ironic. On the other hand, there isn't a culture war issue around air travel where the people who think air travel is dangerous really do think that the crash proves them right.
Jiro
4mo ago
The subset of the homeless who are causing the problems are also the subset who, if given a home, will trash it. This includes encampments, so it won't work.
This is not what "is Trump's fault" means in this context. To many Biden voters, Covid is Trump's fault in the sense that he is responsible for poorly responding to it.
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