Gornemant_de_Gohort
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User ID: 3344
I'm aware of the connection between pop punk and emo in the '00s – I didn't mean to make it sound like I considered them wholly distinct genres. In the context of the '00s I would say most emo bands were pop punk, but not all pop punk bands were emo. Bands like Blink-182 are a great example of how ambiguous it can get. There was also some overlap between indie rock and emo, to make things even more difficult.
I have to disagree massively with the timeline here. Pop-punk became huge concurrently with nu-metal; Green Day’s Dookie and The Offspring’s Smash both came out in 1994, the same year as Korn’s self-titled debut album, and several years before Limp Bizkit and Slipknot got going.
This is actually a little hard to quantify – I looked at Billboard charts from this era, but most of these acts never charted that high. Journalists certainly commented on the decline of nu metal in the early '00s. My perception at the time (I was a teenager in those years) was that there was a sharp decline in the number of white boy dreadlocks post-2001, and a marked rise in skinny jeans and guys wearing eye liner. My Chemical Romance, AFI, Fallout Boy... also the rise of metalcore took place during that period. None of this is to say that pop punk doesn't predate that period (it absolutely does), just that when nu metal collapsed, a specific kind of pop punk moved in to fill the "edgy teen rock" space in radio programming.
Gornemant_de_Gohort
2mo ago
Replying specifically to your comment about nu metal being seen as cringe in its time and after. I think this is correct, but it's worth asking what factors are at work here. What was nu metal, and why might people have hated it?
Class. The audience of Woodstock 99 apparently skewed middle class (the tickets were expensive, but I don't have demographic data); but broadly speaking bands like Korn and Limp Bizkit were "white trash," sometimes lumped in with acts like Eminem, Kid Rock, and (shudder) Insane Clown Posse. Moving into the '00s, a greater divide formed between social classes in popular music – the Pitchfork hipsters mocked and reviled the ICPs of the world (but celebrated trashy black music). This in contrast to the popularity of grunge in the early 90s, a genre which was aesthetically working class but which enjoyed popularity with middle class kids.
Race. Attitudes towards cultural appropriation in the '90s were obviously different; but even in 1999 it was understood that "white people shouldn't rap." Actually, it was probably harder to be a white rapper in '99 – nowadays there are acts like G-Eazy who apparently enjoy success despite their race. But in the '90s the major figures in peoples' minds as far as white rappers were... well, there was Vanilla Ice. Eminem ultimately side-stepped this in various ways – by being technically gifted and by using humour. The nu metal vocalists (Durst, Davis, Taylor) were neither lyrically talented nor (intentionally) funny.
Subject matter (i.e. male emotions, sexual abuse). This aspect is the most interesting to me, by far. Korn's frontman sang about his various childhood traumas, including sexual abuse. This was mocked at the time by other nu metal artists, but this is narcissism of small differences. Some examples of subject matter, by band: Limp Bizkit, breakups, murder, suicide; Slipknot, childhood trauma, rage; Korn, sexual abuse, childhood trauma, bullying; Linkin Park, breakups, sexual abuse, childhood trauma... I could go on. Moving into the '00s, nu metal gave way to pop punk (decidedly more ironic and emotionally guarded) and mainstream hip-hop (even the comparatively cerebral Kanye West never rapped about his uncle touching his private parts), with only emo music going anywhere near the kind of "icky" subjects discussed by Korn et al – and even then, it's comparatively tame and aesthetic. Why exactly we saw an outpouring of lyrics like these in the late '90s is a question worth contemplating.
It's worth noting as well that in the past ~5 years nu metal has enjoyed renewed popularity among the youths – Gen Z seems to have brought much of it back. I work at an art college, and see plenty of Linkin Park, Deftones, and Slipknot t-shirts – but not Korn or Limp Bizkit, so make of that what you will. And yes, they really do actually listen to those bands – I've asked them.
Well, it's just a little after lunch on February 1st, and Trump's promised 25% tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico have yet to materialize.
Messaging has been disorganized. Trump has said that these tariffs are in response to illegal immigration (i.e. border crossing); Karoline Leavitt, Trump's press secretary, has said they're a response to fentanyl coming into the country from Canada and Mexico. Yesterday, when asked if there's anything either country country can do to prevent or delay the tariffs, Trump said no.
As a Canadian, this has me pretty worried. Here is a report published by the Bank of Canada a couple days ago, detailing the seriousness of a 25% tariff for Canada. Of course, discussions on social media have been less sober. I'm not even remotely an economist, so when I hear people suggesting that this could lead to a recession in Canada on the level of 2009, I'm not really able to contextualize those claims. I was just out of school in 2009, and it was an extremely difficult year – the idea of going through something like that again really frightens me.
Up until now I've been more or less indifferent to Trump. While I find him personally and aesthetically unpleasant, the hysteria surrounding his every move – and especially the mainstream media's tendency to misrepresent him, often flagrantly – has sort of balanced things out for me. I confess I felt some cruel enjoyment watching people on the left (many of whom have done great harm to me and my loved ones) melt down both times he won.
Will he go through with it? What are his actual motivations? What will be the consequences? Curious to hear your thoughts on this.
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