Dean
1d ago
Can anyone steel man Biden's actions here?
General deterrence-escalation management theory, pattern recognition, coalition management, and/or a kind gift to Trump to boost Trump's chances.
Deterrence of conventional escalation relies on the point that you may not be able to literally prevent another party from taking an action, but you can make the costs via retaliation high enough that it's not worth it. However, since the other side can retaliate against the retaliation, actual war-costs are generally not present (hence the pattern of Russian red lines). The main factors of retaliation in a democratic-state level is to take retaliation that will threaten, if not the actual existence of the government, it's survival to the next election.
Lame duck governments, by their nature, cannot be deterred in this way.
This changes the cost-benefit calculus of a Putin retaliation. No matter what he does, the Biden administration will be gone in about two months. If he retaliates to a 'sufficient' level to match his previously claimed red lines, doing so risks sabotaging whatever chances of a ceasefire deal he wants with Trump by invoking Trump against him. As Putin's macro-economic strategy for the war for the last years has clearly been to front-load the war economy on the expectation of achieving a close in the next two years or so, that's not a risk Putin will credibly take over a marginal increase to Russian rear area losses.
Pattern recognition comes from the point that the risk of Biden doing so is low based on the normal pattern of Russian reactions to claimed red lines of this manner. No one actually believes Russia's nuclear saber ratling about recently lowering the nuclear threshold to make this a nuclear escalation risk, because the Russian nuclear decision has never been deterrent on the doctrine, but Putin, and if he wanted to do a nuclear response the claimed thresholds were met years ago. As the Russians have and will continue to escalate in various ways regardless (including the new import of North Korean troops), this is just a general pattern of how the coalition has been increasing support for Ukraine over time over Russian objections.
The coalition management angle here is that Biden has probably been willing to support loosening the restrictions for awhile, but was withholding for election purposes. Returning to deterrence, the nature of a deterrence threat to electoral stability is that Russia might have ways to make the election decisively worse if Biden acted before, but this threat loses it's relevance after the election occurs. As such, holding the range limit was a matter of the pro-Ukraine coalition stability (for US electoral purposes this time, but other country considerations before such as German tanks), but releasing range now is also a matter of coalition stability. By releasing the conditions now, Biden is creating precedent that Trump cannot block or revoke, while enabling the Europeans to likewise authorize and release their own long-range munitions at their rate of production (and expanding production, as European arms expansion programs are expected to start taking effect next year).
Finally, the gift to Trump is that this assists Trump's leverage in whatever approach Trump makes with Putin next year.
The crux of the 'Trump plan', which it bears repeating isn't actually a plan Trump made or said he would use, is that Trump would make a conditional threat to Putin: accept Western-offered terms, or see an increase in support to Ukraine.
What releasing the range limitation does is provide a relative preview over the next months of what that support can imply. This means theater-level strikes into Russian airfields where the Russian airforce (especially glide-bomb force) has sat out the war out of range of Ukrainian capabilities, rear-area supply depots, and otherwise increasing the burden on Russia's own stretched air network, and so on. As western- including European and American- arms production investments are expected to started coming online next year, and with it even more long-range weapons, this release bolsters the credibility of what that future armament potential means as a reason for Putin to move closer to an acceptable peace terms.
As such, Biden's release of the range limitations is something the pro-peace audience may want to think him for.
The war is coming to a close. Trump's win gives him the political capital to go to the negotiating table and bring this ugly chapter of European history to a close. It will probably result in Russia gaining some of the Russian speaking territories of Ukraine. There's not much we can do about that unless we want to spend a few hundred thousand more lives.
There's not much 'you' can do if you aren't willing to spend a few hundred thousand more live either, besides assume that the Ukrainians will continue fighting without American support.
Setting aside that Trump has not claimed he would compel the Ukrainians to accept a Russian-acceptable deal, nor was that a fair characterization of the Trump-advisor plan that was claimed to offer that during the election season, Trump doesn't actually have the political capital to do so either. Trump's election gives him as much political capital as his narrow Republican majority cares to back him with, and no further. The Ukraine war is not a priority to Republican majority, let alone compelling an end to it, and Trump attempting to do so is an easy way to break his 2-year trifecta with a party member revolt for... a position he hasn't taken.
And even if Trump wants to, his American political capital doesn't translate into political capital to compel the Europeans to contribute to the concessions Russia has demanded for ending this round of the Ukraine War, nor can he compel them to stop aiding Ukraine, nor does he have the poltiical capital to make the Ukrainian government accept Russian terms, nor does he have the political capital to make the Ukrainians stop fighting.
What Trump can do is make a not-very-credible threat that he will withhold all aid and watch the Ukrainians die even if they die by the hundreds of thousands... but the only way to make that sort of threat credible if the Ukrainians fight on is to stand by while hundreds thousands more lives end.
You may think that shouldn't happen, that there's no reason for that to happen, that it would be a bad idea for the Ukrainians to take a path for that to happen... but that can very well happen regardless of what you think, because you are not the ones who can make that decision. No American is.
At which point, you are just as well off asking what to do on the assumption that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians will die regardless. Even if 'we' do nothing, we would still be spending hundreds of thousands of lives to do nothing.
Ideally, Biden would make peace now. It's his last chance to do something good for the world. A Nobel Peace Prize would put a positive sheen on an otherwise terrible Presidency.
Biden doesn't have the ability to make peace now, because Biden is not, and Americans are not, the hyperagent of the Ukraine War.
The Americans are not able to compel Putin to accept a deal, or to make the Europeans offer concessions so that Putin would take a deal now rather than think he could get a better deal from Trump later.
This pointless escalation does nothing to help Ukraine achieve victory.
Why not, besides your own particular definition of victory?
If one defines victory as Ukraine gaining credible Western security guarantees short of NATO membership that convince Ukraine to accept a Russian demand for no-NATO membership, then demonstrating the effectiveness of previously off-limits capabilities may assuage Ukrainian concerns of post-conflict western support.
If one defines a victory as the Americans negotiating near-term cease fire under Trump, this directly enables Trump to present maximum coercion to get Putin to agree to drop various demands and accept a ceasefire.
If one defines a European victory as further attriting the Russian economic damage of the war to delay by years the functional reconstruction / rebalancing of the Russian military and civil-economy, and thus giving Europe and Ukraine more time to prepare for the next war without American support, this directly enables further attrition of Russian strategic assets whose replacement may add to that time.
There are many theories of victory which this easily supports, regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or not.
You're right that Russia is not about to start nuking cities. But there are lots of things that they can do to be annoying, such as restricting exports of key materials, cutting underseas cables, or even blowing up GPS satellites.
And you believe those are more credible or meaningful threats to refrain from support because...?
You are proposing, variously, a non-threat of a fungible good, an already occurring trend, and an expansion into direct conflict when the purpose of Russian deterence strategy has been to prevent direct conflict with the US.
That's an interesting thing to be deterred by, but not a particularly compelling one.
Is Biden hoping to bait Putin into an escalation that Trump can't ignore, thereby preventing him from ending the war. If so, this seems evil, there's no other way to put it.
That is how things seem if you assume the evil conclusions of your outgroup.
Dean
1d ago
It's less a miracle and more of a consequence of how the cross-border dynamic of human smuggling works. In short, the cartels have strong incentives to not only not go along with it, but to punish defectors (other cartels who might), and this lack of reliability and secrecy renders it not particularly feasible for state actors.
The cartels have been competing with the US government and mexican authorities for a long time, but part of that is also because they selective cooperate to take down rivals / settle feuds / use the MEX/US authorities to go after their business rivals rather than themselves. Since the drug business is profit-motivated, unnecessary conflict with the US authorities is generally avoided up to a point. This is one of the reasons that the Mexican drug wars, while bloody in absolute terms, have been relatively low-collateral damage to American citizens- if you do something high profile against the US, not only have you put a target on your back from increased US attention, but your competitors have a prime opportunity to bring you low. This is how you get Mexican cartels killing their own as a sort of apology for getting Americans killed. This is without going into how the drug cartels themselves are penetrated by Mexican / American law enforcement agencies.
Why this matters for the state-terrorism angle is that other countries know this, not least because back in 2011 an Iranian attempt to use Mexican cartel hitmen to assassinate the Saudi Ambassador to the US made the minor oops of hiring an FBI informant as the assassin.
Further, state terrorism is actually a pretty poor strategy for direct competition because if you were willing to launch the equivalent of a missile strike in the first place (several bombs on objectives), you'd just use missiles in the first place (which countries like Iran and Russia have). The advantage of terrorism isn't the damage, but the non-attribution... but if you're going to be attributed anyways (say because you take credit, or because you are compromised by untrustworthy Mexican cartels you relied upon to get across the border who are belatedly trying to cover their own ass), you're not any less vulnerable to a retaliatory missile strike than if you did something more overt.
Terrorism / bombings work in an insurgency context because of the ability to hide within the population which negates the ability / wisdom of retaliation. However, a cross-border migration attack wouldn't be able to hide amongst the American side or the Mexican cartels.
There are ways this could change- and it's a policy argument against trying to declare mexican cartels as terrorist organizations (as then they'd have less to lose from working with actual terrorists)- but without credible plausibility a terror-bombing is just a way to get into a direct military conflict with a country who the perpetrators primary national security strategies are about not coming into direct conflict with.
I know what you mean.
I actually had a bit of a falling-off moment around Elden Ring (partly due to it, partly due to earlier titles) where I lost interest in more narrative-driven video games because it became increasingly obviously a lot of people (but felt like an increasing number of people) didn't 'get it' and weren't paying attention to the actual plot or themes as much as treating the video games as an extension of their own politics.
An example was the strategy game Fire Emblem: Three Houses where people unironically didn't realize that the villain route of siding with a self-styled meritocrat was undercutting not only the themes of the game, but her own themes. There was just taking-at-face without realizing the irony that the self-styled 'revolutionary' was not only a revaunchist conqueror, but she was self-styled meritocrat who was stealing credit for other people's work, that she entrenched the previous nobility via her own nepotistic patronage and retention of her nobility friend group without changing the lots of the lower-class classmates, and that hers was the one ending that didn't end with some variation of 'and they were remembered as succeeding,' but instead 'and maybe she could start trying to be a reformer'... despite not having actually had a plan for any post-conquest education system or other meaningful government policy.
And also that her introductory scene is her literally running from the consequence of her own actions backfiring, resulting in her more or less falling for a stranger who saves her, i.e. one of the least 'this is a competent and mature women' introductions possible.
But hey, she had nice legs and was uwu for the player character.
(For Elden Ring, it was the general 'Marika was rebelling against the Greater Will!' fan movement in general. Because... clearly she was a Jesus allegory because she was crucified. It hurt to engage with that.)
Dean
2d ago
The Tumblr person for EldenRing is @yournextflame.
I don't remember if they had anything about the Ring Cycle in their pieces- that was me just being more familiar with the director and the material- but they have some great cross-cultural insight into the Japanese language/connotation/cultural context that doesn't always translate to the English fandom.
Dean
3d ago
Obviously so, yes, but by posing a question anyways I was able to get some adults to nerd out about a children's book series. ;-)
Dean
3d ago
But here in America, we're rarely exposed to the British working class.
Out of curiosity, what did Harry Potter qualify as?
Dean
7d ago
Is there a continental-scale societal category that historically does not have high rates of mass violence?
Just to look briefly at Europe- football hooliganism, muslim riots, public-targetted terrorism, Russian border wars, Paris lighting itself on fire every presidency or so...
Dean
7d ago
Those could literally all be true without caveat, and it wouldn't matter in the budgeting sense since those may seem like big numbers in absolute terms but are proportionally very small compared to entitlement spending. It doesn't matter of bridges 100x or even 1000x more than they 'should' if the budget is spending thousands times more on entitlement spending than on bridges.
To wit- according to the Biden administration earlier this year, the US has $40 billion allocated to spend over 5 years on bridges. By contrast, the combined Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare spending in 2024 is $1.67 trillion, and expected to rise to 3.1 trillion by 2033.
Put another way- 5 years of all bridge spending is less than 3% of one year's medical spending, and shrinking. You could make that $40 billion 10x, 100x, or even 1000x more efficient, but no matter how efficient you spend 40 billion it's a drop in the entitlement spending. Sure, you could argue that there are savings to be made there... but then you're not going into the discretionary budget administration, you're going to the automatic entitlement spending, which goes to the laws rather than the executive administration thereof.
Part of that's just baked into demographic politics.
When the Americans legislated Social Security in 1935, FDR signed a law that authorized payments for those 65 or older when the average American lifespan in 1935 was... 61 for men and 65 for women, according to a quick google search.
Today, social security can begin between ages 62 and 70 depending on your preference of payout amount... when the average American lifespan is about 75 for men, and 80 for women.
It fundamentally doesn't matter in a budgeting sense how efficient you are at executing the discretionary programs if the entitlements previous created on the assumption that less than half of people would live long enough to see them are instead expecting to pay for more than a decade. When you start adding in medical spending, which costs increasing with age, you're adding more. This is an issue of law and what the legislators deem is the appropriate entitlement, not administration of that amount. No matter how much you save on the executive side- and it can be very good to have more efficiency there!- it's not the central or determinative issue.
The best example is the cult of the "martyr" (i.e. suicide terrorist) among Salafi Jihadis in most places, but not in Saudi Arabia or Taliban-ruled Afghanistan where Salafism is not an oppositional culture.
Eh. The Taliban made plentiful use of suicide bombers, and the Saudi extremist wahhabism had plenty of 'die for the cause and call them martyr' extremists over the last two decades. You saw more suicide bombers in conflict zones because conflict zones are where you get more desperate / angry / 'I don't care if I die / what do I have to live for' types.
What changed the cultural value of suicide bombers was when suicide bombers started getting associated with targeting muslims as opposed to Jews / Christians / outsiders. I think it was around 2009 round abouts, but even before the rise of ISIS or the Arab Spring there were surveys noting that regional support for suicide bombers as a valid form of resistance was dropping. When suicide bombings transitioned from more associated with the anti-israeli intifada and more associated with civil wars and targetting other muslims, it became less heroic and more problematic.
Dean
8d ago
But maybe it takes a chainsaw-wielding maniac to get the job done. How is Milei doing, by the way?
Reasonably well, but for reasons that are generally non-transferable to Trump. Milei's success / continued political survival was in large part because the economic issue of government bloat / inflation were central to his election. He was able to win election and maintain support despite warning upfront that things would get worse before they get better because he was very clear there would be pain, and the voting public accepted the legitimacy of that in order to address a broadly recognized problem that had decades of buildup.
The Trump context is considerably different. Trump beat Biden, and the electoral college makes it more decisive than the vote difference otherwise would, but Trump ran on a generalized vibe rather than an explicit and widely accepted problem. Particularly since US problems aren't the same sort of 'within the Executive sphere' as Milei faced. Milei had to deal with executive patronage networks / make jobs / inflationary policies, but the US challenge on the budgeting sense is the automatic entitlement spending, not the bureaucracy administering it. The sort of cuts to be needed would need to be legislative, and the sort of sphere that Trump has tended not to challenge.
This will be interesting, in the sense of interesting times, but the chainsaw will probably go after the wrong institutions to meet it's stated goals (but which probably will meet less-stated goals).
Dean
8d ago
If the image that Trump supporters (and opponents) have constructed in their heads of Trump that presents some sort of a major different to the general thrust of postwar American foreign policy differs from reality... well, that can't be helped. In general, foreign policy tends to the be one thing where political changes don't usually lead to large differences in course.
This, mostly. Don't forget that John Bolton was Trump's National Security Advisor for a time, which is a position of significant influence (but, critically, not determinative).
Trump isn't an isolationist, nor is he a neocon. He's more than willing to have hardliners on the staff, but he will ignore them as much as he ignores that anti-hardliners, which is to say he'll pick whoever's proposal he likes most in the context. Trump isn't ideological enough to be consistent, and while he's willing to go with things that are thought of as 'hardline' (such as the Soleimani killing), he's also been willing to go along with things considered 'weak' (such as the meeting with North Korea's Kim).
Part of Trump's style / implicit offer to his cabinet and significant appointments last time is that he's willing to appoint people whose ambitions / desires are outside the Overton window of the department they oversee, as long as they stand by him / don't start to try and spat with him / his priorities. Trump's appointments, however, are not themselves an endorsement / indication of top-level support for their preferences (i.e. Trump isn't going to fight their bureaucratic battles for them).
What that means is that Rubio and Trump probably have some identified overlapping interests that Rubio wants to do but the current state department momentum isn't. Rubio being a hawk doesn't disqualify him to Trump, because Trump isn't going to defer to Rubio as much as let Rubio do his own thing until Rubio gets involved in a fight with Trump.
Dean
9d ago
And I approve! It was meant to be a joke, but I realize now it might have seemed a bit mean-spirited, which I apologize for.
It's actually as short as it is because I cut off a bit of a nerd spiel. One of my favored commentators for analyzing video games (specifically Elden Ring) was- for some unfathomable reason- only posting on Tumblr. It was just that level of 'niche access' and 'you have to really be dedicated to this topic' that I now associated with Tumblr, for its highs and its lows.
Dean
9d ago
If those people are able to buy houses in Eugene, they are within the system. It's still just demand.
Now, it may be a demand curve that needs to be adjusted by different legislation- such as restricting property purchases by non-residents or some such- but that's different from a claim that the demand is stimulated.
Dean
9d ago
I believe the counter to the steelman is that 'stimulated demand' is just known elsewhere as 'demand,' which is to say the exact thing you'd expect to see from a supply and demand curve interaction when you increase supply.
A Twitter exchange is in fact a form of contract -- so whether the guy sent Nate a piece of paper saying "I will pay Nate Silver 100K if Florida goes less than R +8, otherwise he will pay me", I think the terms of the bet were pretty clear.
...?
If the Twitter exchange is in fact a form of contract, then so is the stipulation of said Twitter exchange for the requisite next step- which includes Nate's condition that the other person send a formal contract via lawyer. If the guy sends a piece of paper saying what you say, it would be failing to meet the conditions of the terms of the Twitter-contract.
But no one accused him of dishonesty.
...er, yes, there has been. That is one of the implications of the phrase 'weasel out of a bet,' which has been invoked in this Nate Silver context*. In forum and elsewhere, the Nate Silver's bet post is being used to charge Nate Silver of dishonest for not following through with his offer for a bet.
*Though not by Ranger specifically.
Nate never said "I didn't get any contract", that's my entire point!
Nor, to my knowledge, has Nate ever said he did get any contract. Hence you do not have a point- you have an absence of information.
Hence why I am asking for some support that he received the contract, as opposed to working from a position of assuming he did.
It's his opponent that exposed himself to an accusation of dishonesty if and only if he didn't send the contract.
Incorrect. Nate's opponent would only expose himself to an accusation of dishonest if and only if he claimed to send the contract but didn't.
However, if Nate's opponent has not made a claim, he would not be dishonest regardless of whether he sent a claim or not.
Unless I misread something earlier, at this point and in this thread, no evidence has been provided that Nate's opponent has claimed to have sent a contract. IF Nate's opponent has made a claim, THEN that claim could be looked at for evidence of credibility- for example, if the claim was made before the election (when results were still uncertain) that would be more credible than the same words made after the election (when the results are now hindsight)- but no consideration can be made absent of existence, and without existence of a claim from Nate's opponent then Nate's opponent cannot be dishonest about said claim.
This, and the fact that you thought it's his reputation as a better that's at stake, makes me think you're not really getting the logic behind my reasoning, but I don't know how to explain it any better.
No, I get your logic behind your reasoning, I just think it's a very poor counter to a request for information, and does not warrant accepting an assumption that is required for various arguments to be valid.
Dean
11d ago
In other international news that totally-isn't-a-consequence of the US election shaping state decisions, Qatar has agreed to remove Hamas from its territory after Hamas refused to conduct genuine hostage, ceasefire negotiations (as characterized by an anonymous US official).
This is a significant development if true, as it represents a significant drop in Arab political support for Hamas inclusion into a post-Gaza-War unified Palestine government, a point of post-war tension with Israel, and likely signals the further political decline of the Palestinians as a key factor in Arab politics as the loss of one of their key sponsors / sympathizers will likely see Hamas turn more towards Iran, and thus burn further bridges with the Arab states concerned about Iran and its axis of resistance.
For those unaware, Qatar has been the host to the political wing of Hamas for some times. Qatar-Hamas relations more or less started in earnest after Hamas's take over of Gaza in the mid-2000s, and in 2012 Hamas set up a political office in Qatar. Due to Qatar's role as a 'negotiates with everyone' regional diplomatic power, Qatar is a country the Israelis do not generally conduct assassinations / targetted killings, and so Hamas was able to operate with... not impunity, but relative safety and patronage. While this was supported by the Obama-era US and Israel to facilitate negotiations between Israel and Hamas, Qatar has provided its own support, including lots of money (well over $1 billion USD over the years, 'for the Palestinians' but via Hamas), safe shop, but also a very supportive media relationship with Qatari-owned Al Jazeera news. Setting aside cases of Jazeera journalists outright supporting Hamas, the Qatari line via Al Jazeera is one of the most public and influential Arab media / information influence shapers for the pro-Hamas / anti-Israeli side of the current conflict.
While the Hamas military and political wings are not synonymous, and the political wing in Qatar likely were not directly aware of Oct 7 (because why wouldn't they be spied on intently), the Hamas political wing being stationed in Qatar represents something of a last-stand of Palestinian resistance politics in the Arab world. The various Palestinian violent resistance movements across history have progressively gotten less support / more opposition from regional Arab states after various misteps, including Black September, support for Saddam during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, and others. The Qataris were, to a real degree, the last major Gulf Arab state both willing to host Hamas and able to sponsor them... and whose hosting provided protection from Israeli retaliation.
With Qatar ejecting the Hamas political leadership during the Oct 7 war, that protection is ending. Hamas leaders will almost certainly seek alternative patronage support in other countries... but the list of those (a) willing to host, (b) who Israel isn't willing to attack into anyway, and (c) willing to protect Hamas if Israel tries is very small, and mostly non-Arab.
Especially since there is a not-very-subtle US pressure in play.
"After rejecting repeated proposals to release hostages, its leaders should no longer be welcome in the capitals of any American partner. We made that clear to Qatar following Hamas's rejection weeks ago of another hostage release proposal," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
This doesn't mean a country like, say, Turkey couldn't do so anyway, but in all likelihood the confluence of 'willing to sponsor Hamas in the Oct 7 war' and 'doesn't care about US pressure' is probably Iran... and honestly, either Iran or Turkey (though less Turkey) demonstrate the same point: the Palestinian resistance issue is transitioning from an Arab-led issue, to an issue led by Arab-rivals.
This doesn't mean a sharp or sudden change in political cultures or such is imminent- al Jazeera will still be running pro-Palestinian / anti-Israeli issues for years to come- but as states change their priorities, and their patronage networks, so do their information efforts and priorities. It's been said before the Palestinians never lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity, and in this case the opportunity lost was Qatari sponsorship.
As for why now? Well, as hinted above, probably US election political politics. The US message quoted above was 'weeks ago' for an issue apparent months ago, but the President coming in was only determined days ago. How Trump might have approached the issue likely had a non-trivial influence on the Qatari decision.
Dean
12d ago
It is not his reputation as a confident bettor at stake, it is his reputation as an honest man which reflects on both the value of his words as a bettor and his words as a political scientist.
Hinging an argument on an accusation of dishonesty is precisely why I feel it is reasonable to request evidence of dishonesty, lest that accusation of dishonesty also be dishonest.
Ranger does not appear to have meant to make an argument about Silver's reputation as a bettor in the sense of upholding a bet, but if you wish to on the basis of Nate Silver being 'a weasel with no integrity,' I would make the same question of you: please provide the evidence that Nate Silver weaseled out of the bet.
and that should absolutely inform your opinion of his political commentary as a good Bayesian
I don't believe I have ever claimed to be a Bayesian, or ever particularly cared about others being Bayesian, particularly when the claims of being a good one or not revolve around character rather than statistical grounds.
In fact, for transparency I have a general skepticism of arguments about when other people are a 'good' [Insert Applause Category], since in my experience these often attempts to use assumed category requirements as a cudgel in either a No True Scotsman fallacy sense (if you wish to qualify as [Good Group], you must meet my critiera) or in ad hominem effect (this person is not [Good People]).
Dean
12d ago
This is tangential to my main point.
If that is so, I accept this correction in good faith, and I do believe this elaboration of the main argument is substantially stronger. I am not attempting to change your opinion on Nate Silver's accuracy.
I am still curious of if there was ever evidence that Silver's bet was accepted, both for it's own sake in addressing the question and to updating priors, but an argument of 'he would have lost money if he made the bet' is a substantially different argument than 'he refused to respect his own challenge,' and if you did not mean the later interpretation I am grateful for the clarification.
I supposed we will have to agree to disagree that it is unfair to request evidence to substantiate an accusation, particularly when that accusation is a form of argument.
'The accused did not defend themselves' is so flawed a standard for determining truth that Americans prohibit it as a legal standard at a Constitutional level as an element of self-incrimination protections (you cannot be forced to testify, but also your refusal to testify is not itself self-incrimination), and while we are not a court of law it does lead to why it's a poor argument on grounds of reputational damage. Even Nate defending himself in this twitter at this point can inflict reputation damage to Nate- after all, it could be presented / accused as Nate lying / trying to deflect from the poling-result mismatch / doing a condemnable thing in and of itself. General decorum is to not air legal conflicts on your pseudo-business reputational Twitter account, particularly when they are about a prediction that you got wrong- just re-raising the topic is causing reputational harm.
And this is without other possible reasons of reputational harm for not going into detail of why an offer might not have been carried through. Like, say, the fact that Nate Silver is a married men, and married women are often quite willing to have strong words with their husbands when said husbands start offering 5-figure bets. Or maybe his finances are not so liquid and stable as to set a 5-figure risk. Or that he was drunk and not in a good state of mind when he made the offer. Nate is already suffering reputational harm for coming off as a bet-welcher, but he could suffer more reputational harm if he provided more context... and this is regardless of whether there was an actual acceptance-offer made.
It's also a defense that doesn't really acknowledge the shifts in which reputations are being challenged how.
Note here that Nate's reputation isn't regarding whether he would fail to pay a bet. It's not even about if he made a bet. The reputation in question is if Nate's reputation as a political data analyst, i.e. whether his analysis of election, is sound enough to warrant respect.
Whether Nate is willing to actually to make a bet or not isn't actually a failure of his analytic capacity (i.e. whether he should be considered valuable input), it's a failure of an additional standard introduced as a basis of dismissal (if Nate Silver is not willing to go through with a bet, his work can be dismissed). Nate Silver's [Reputation as a political scientist] and [Reputation as a confident better] are two different reputations, which are being conflated to use the one that is easier to condemn [reputation as a betting man] to dismiss the other [reputation as a political scientist].
Since the [reputation as a betting man] is being used as a proxy argument for [Nate Silver's arguments can be dismissed without addressing], the role of evidence is in turn strengthening or weakening the proxy argument. This seems like a reasonable request, but I will admit that is my own opinion.
Dean
12d ago
Or that it's debates between large numbers of different people with different positions, even the people within the same coalition.
Just as governments aren't hive minds, neither are 'pro' or 'anti' camps. It's not a motte and bailey if person A takes position A and person B takes position B, even if B is better at some arguments than A (and often vice versa).
Dean
12d ago
That's less of a steelman and more of an indictment of competence that would be entirely Marn'i's fault.
Setting aside that the 'FEMA is at risk' reporting was for an entirely different state over a fear that didn't happen and in which FEMA activities were re-implemented, and thus not a credible fear in Florida, the broader issue is that the mitigation measure doesn't pass muster. If there is a safety fear in a neighborhood/area, then the safety mitigation is to prevent any personnel from going into the area until you have security, not avoiding specific houses. You are still in gunshot range of a danger house if you knock at the house next door.
Marni's is a person with agency, not a brainwashed thrall, and unfortunately their competence was quite low.
That would not be fair. In the absence of Nate confirming that he refused to sign a contract, a claim of having sent the contract is just a claim absent further evidence.
My curiosity / eyebrow is raised because Ranger is raising this bet as a character failure on the part of Nate Silver, but the proffered evidence is of the conditional offer of a bet, not that the bet was accepted as offered but that Silver refused to sign it.
This leads to a couple of issues for which more information than has been provided is needed.
-Did the other person actually accept the bet, or are they just claiming so with post-election hindsight? (i.e. is he talking the talk after the election is decided?)
-Did the person try to modify the terms of the bet offered that would render the offer void? (i.e. did he refuse to walk the walk when it mattered?)
-Did the person fail to meet the conditions of the offer of bet? (i.e. did they not have their lawyer do it, but tried to make their own contract- thus invoking the payment risk issue raised?)
I've no particular strong feeling on Nate Silver one way or another, but if someone wants to make a character failure accusation with linked evidence I'd generally prefer the links to be evidence of a character failure.
He also has a video on this very topic from yesterday.
More options
Context Copy link