DTulpa
4mo ago
I saw a lot of comments ranging from the boring "ugh, Trump needlessly showboating again" to "He's making the SS' jobs difficult" and finally to "that he was even allowed to do that means this was staged".
Ignoring the third one since you would have to be insane to keep up that line today, I'll have to admit that they may not even be wrong on the first two. In the fog of it, Trump was exposing himself to further danger for the sake of a visual display. And he was indeed holding up his protection while they did their thing. But in the end, it was absolutely worth it and the correct move to make.
The image is awesome, and I think most Dems are honest enough to admit that. They're just reluctant to give it any credit.
DTulpa
4mo ago
Fwiw, I would be interested in seeing codified protections for whatever is considered 'abhorrent speech' in any given year. Maybe I'd eventually be a little disgusted by the extent of the leeway in practice, but I can swallow that bitter pill if I think everybody is getting a reasonable share of the security blanket.
I just don't see how we get from here to there without reminding people across the board that they actually have skin in this game too. Something needs to actually force people to the table to avoid an exchange of WMDs, and the only path I see is to make people sweat a bit. And while you may not be able to claim a CEOs scalp this week, you can give them a light preview of where the winds will be blowing soon enough. Fortunately, there's Trump and his incoming admin to handle some of that.
I don't consider people like HD lady to be innocent civilians, although I do feel bad for her. I think these are people who volunteered for the fight, and are now having regrets that a mortar landed in their foxhole. In many a sense, this is ugly, unfair, and not quite hitting the target. But in what I see as a war between roughly two mass psychologies, the ultimate goal is to reprogram the opponent's consensus. That angle of attack can be opened from anywhere. Remember that the death of a fentanyl junkie sent a wide and powerful message that upended US society for years and brought forth new standards everybody had to live with.
I already stated in my post that I don't expect to ever be symmetrical with the left. Nor do I particularly want to be.
I'll admit that 'vengeance' is on my mind, although I don't believe it to be petty. Nor am I acting on it, unless shrugging at LibsOfTiktok antics counts. Perhaps admitting that undercuts any further point point I try to make. But the most sober, serious take I can muster is this:
There will be no possibility of progress on this until the left gets a bit of this in their bloodstream, and their safe little clouds get punctured. They're gonna need to get sick a bit before they truly appreciate what a healthy body is. Because right now they're still in La La Land to my eyes. A blob that wants to go to the mattresses over Dead Trump jokes after a decade of pearl-clutching about so much weak shit is not a good partner for reform, and I expect them to resume maximum hostilities when they feel free enough to do so.
And if that doesn't work, so be it. I don't know what else comes next. We're not drowning in optimal choices here.
CEO of Cloudflare had ears, and a sense of self-awareness to know he was opening pandora's box when he made his move against Stormfront. Apple and Amazon had ears when they were pulling Confederate and other RW imagery from their stores. ACLU could have maintained its usual tone instead of landsliding into progressive ideals. And am I to presume that heads of Google and Facebook were never availed of these concerns?
The rabble is hard to control, yes. And yet various captains of industry, historied organizations, and formerly libertanian-ish techbros either bent the knee, got fully on board, or played along out of fear of looking x-ist. A platform like Twitter can stuff its Trust & Safety Board with all stripes of feminist, POC, and LGBTQ advocates with nary a conservative in sight, and nobody on the inside recognizes how fucked up this is. It is impossible for me to believe that there was nobody in a position to listen to these concerns. They were indeed heard, and considered either naive, old-fashioned, or even dangerous.
These 'leaders' had every opportunity to stand athwart their mobs, wait them out, and go back to selling sneakers to Republicans. They passed it up. And I think it's worth remembering that a lot of this turn was occurring before Trump stepped off the golden escalator.
What occurred to me is that despite all the handwringing regarding a violent right-wing backlash to the event, I believe his fist-pump display actually curbed such an impulse in that very moment.
Imagine if Trump had been immediately dragged off the stage, and how ambiguous that image would have been. Is he dead? Is he alive? Is he wounded badly and will bleed out soon? Maybe physically impaired? What the fuck just happened? Is something going to be 'off' if and when he shows up again?
Trump gave 'proof of life' with that act. It wasn't enough to have him merely standing, or to provide a follow-up "I'm fine!" tweet that people may not trust. He snapped back into his usual shape and reassured everybody thay he was OK. And so it ends with cheers and jubilation instead of the wailing and gnashing of teeth. A lot could have happened in those few minutes, and the energy ultimately got redirected to Trump himself.
Anybody bitching about his fist-pump while also shaking in their boots about political violence can't see two feet in front of themselves.
DTulpa
4mo ago
Oh yeah. I remember the needle bins in the public parks, and the permissive attitudes regarding the use sites. And yet, somehow I never encountered somebody shitting in the streets, passed out on a bench, or going schizo at a random passer-by. The mentality seemed to be "Fine, you can do those things. The moment this starts getting ugly or impinge on anybody else, you will get hauled off. Keep it invisible." I saw more social dysfunction from imported Turks and Albanians than from the junkies.
Not sure how well this model has survived. My experience was about 20 years ago. But I had the sense that this only possible as a result of 'Swiss Culture', if that's not too vague. Being a smaller country also helps. It seemed to work well enough for them, but if anybody pitched the idea needle bins in the nearby parks around me here in the US, I'd tell them they're crazy.
This is so obvious a point that I wonder why it gets glossed over so much.
Yes, you have people on both sides of the aisle expressing violent fantasies and urges. The difference is that for a long time one side would lose their jobs, their status, their opportunities, and their protections. And not just them, but anybody who could be considered adjacent to those sentiments. Not even worth mentioning all the nonviolent expressions that got similar treatment. If you shoved some Sam Hyde quotes in front of an 'honorable Republican', they would reflexively denounce it, and maybe throw in a preemptive but unnecessary condemnation of white supremacy for good measure. There's /pol/, which isn't nothing, but it's also a bunch of faceless assholes who cant be held accountable and whose power level is overstated.
This is all before a POTUS candidate got shot. While I have some respect for the attempts to dissuade people against revenge, I have not been convinced that that said revenge isn't the smart, productive, and deserved play. Moreso, I don't know how you skip this step and go straight to Peace and Unity. There's a gap in this thinking that some expect to just sort out on its own, but I don't see the mechanism or the reciprocity required for it to work.
And when I compare the Left's body count to the Right's today... the suggestion to relent seems facially ridiculous? To my awareness, we have a Home Depot employee, an asshole streamer immolating himself and his surrounding bridges, and a member of a joke band pulling a Kathy Griffin (as in, largely punished by his peers, not external Rightoid forces). Not because of pronoun faux pas, or slips of the tongue, or statements that could be maliciously and dishonestly interpreted, but because they cheered on the death of Trump and/or Comperatore. These are the bridges too far? Really?
I don't believe in God or Heaven. More power to the folks with a strong Christian ethos or equivalent and the lines they wish to hold. I think holding these people over the piranha pit is ugly but necessary. And I'm prepared to accept that I likely won't see a quarter of the just desserts that would make this even remotely symmetrical. That's fine. I'm not greedy.
DTulpa
4mo ago
I agree.
Despite everything that has occurred over the last month, reading that tweet in particular was the most potent in making me feel like I was being spun into another reality, for some reason. I couldn't quite believe I was seeing it. That it actually tied into something more fleshed out was a slight relief, but not by much.
DTulpa
4mo ago
FWIW apparently that was a 2-part tweet, essentially saying he's sick of Elon trying to buy an election.
So not as bizarre as I initially thought.
I dunno. This doesn't check out IME. I think a bit of masking is actually necessary. There was an appeal to getting more intimate with the minds of others when I thought "people are just fundamentally good". While it's not like I believe the opposite now, I can't sign on to that statement as-is.
I have been low-key horrified at many of the utterances good friends and peers have made over the last decade. These are decent, nonviolent, funny human beings who turned on a dime and started expressing every cruel, nasty thought they had in the name of authenticity and 'speaking their mind'. I have not cherished this. I wish they had actually shut the fuck up and kept it to themselves. Our bonds were not strengthened, but frayed. They still are to this day.
That's with actual people I'm familiar with in my life. You can probably imagine how much more insufferable this is with celebrities. More irritating is how that class is allowed to express their 'authentic selves' as much as they want while being completely shielded from the consequences of their expressions, while others get no such protections. Pedro Pascal should be C-tier after all the crap he's said, but instead he soaks up more love, more accolades, and more roles. I guess him and his legions of fans are okay with this, and who am I to complain. But I do not feel inclined towards kindness at this state of affairs.
Maybe society needs masks, and kayfabe, and to be just a little fake and gay. Maybe we are better off with some illusions regarding others. Because just like with the global adoption of the internet that was supposedly meant to help us better understand each other - well, it worked. And I am thoroughly displeased with the results.
See Destiny and his ongoing meltdown. I actually thought he was closer to being 'one of the good ones' worth listening to occasionally, and he seemed to make a concerted effort to drop some of the low-effort gotchas that marked thie beginning of his career as a political streamer. Now I think he's telling us what he really thinks. While I believe this is somewhat of a public good, because now I know I don't ever have to pay attention to him again, it is still depressing and unfortunate. And I also now have in mind several friends who are exhibiting this same behavior to a lesser degree, which makes it doubly so.
DTulpa
4mo ago
In Basel, I remember when the downtown public restrooms got considerably upgraded! Automatic doors, light soundproofing, self-cleaning toilets, etc.
Not sure where they stand today, but I think this initiative would be completely wasted in most major US cities. I'm sure there were still junkies shooting up in them, but that activity was often traceless.
DTulpa
4mo ago
They have made it crystal clear that their ire is not constrained to Trump. It regularly spills over to his base, Republicans in general, and even people that just are just not faithfully aligned with Blue Tribe values.
It is astounding reading and watching people act like this is some hot topic of the week that will blow over in a month. Maybe? What I don't see enough chatter about is how Trump voters received a loud and clear message that their deaths and misfortune (not just Trump's!) will be minimized at best and actively celebrated at worst (see also Babbit). As if it matters one bit to me if Crooks was a registered Republican when I subsequently saw how sizable chunks of the Left reacted to it.
This memory will not be going away any time soon.
DTulpa
4mo ago
Indeed. My line has been that I don't mind (too much) the private expression of dark thoughts. I may not be interested in maintaining a relationship past a certain threshold, but if you wanna hang out over a few beers/joints and have a completely unrestrained conversation about this stuff, I'm game for it! The human mind is full of evil as well as good, and I am self-aware enough to know some of my beliefs are completely unproductive in the public sphere unless stated very carefully. I'm not intetested in scouring people's brains for wrongthink as long as their outward behavior is okey-dokey; because that's what actually matters.
If you literally can't stop yourself from gloating over this shit in public, then you have signed yourself up for the fucking war AFAIC.
Gass could have said 'Boobies' and probably gotten the same effect. Instead he did the stupid thing.
I'm still carrying a charge over this after watching various leftist figures not only joke about the attempt on Trump's life, but also the other victims (1 dead, 2 critical). Last week I listened to Glenn Loury and John McWhorter on the former's podcast, and even straight-laced smarty linguistics expert John was saying he was only 'half-kidding' when he said he wanted Trump killed. Mind you, this was before the shooting, and I am intensely interested in their next episode together.
I had low tolerance for this kind of public talk before. It's nuked now.
EDIT: I have just now actually watched the video of Gass on stage making that joke. The most disturbing thing isn't the joke itself, but watching and hearing the crowd go fucking wild at it. And I'm reminded that we have a much larger problem than whatever stupid shit falls out of Gass' mouth. If the Right needs to claim scalps wherever they can get them and make examples of people (even down to lowly Home Depot workers), then so be it. Time to reach out and oh-so-gently touch them.
Sure. I guess. In the same way that a schizo may 'support' stabbing his roommate because they're trying to steal his precious bodily fluids or put chips in his brain. Makes sense from his individual perspective. Of course, this perspective has consequences meted out by other parties (disconnection, imprisonment, execution).
They should support his murder based on their premises. I have my own premises as well, and some disorganized thoughts on what should be done to them in turn.
So you use 'they' until the person you're interacting with reveals themselves. Teams texts, a Skype call, or a company headshot usually takes care of this.
I work with a lot of fellow, foreign employees, and I swear that there has never been any enduring confusion over somebody's gender or sex. Yes, an odd-to-my-ears name occasionally stumps me, and this is often rectified within 24-48 hours just by inference, without anybody prompting for pronouns or confirming genitals. Furthermore, most of the people I'm interacting with do not have not have these models for novel gender theory born from the West. They work for a US company, so on some level they 'get' why it's being asked (because despite DEI and inclusions practices, everybody is bowing down to American corporate culture), but I have a hard time imagining them getting utility from this on a more fundamental level.
On paper, I get the argument you're making. In my reality, 99% of the company folk I see with pronouns in their signatures or profiles visibly match their birth sex. There is no confusion or ambiguity regarding who or what they are. And this generalizes across all the Americans, Indians, Koreans, Serbians, and more that I see listed in my recent Teams history.
The one time I have ever experienced a 'pronoun snag' was with a goateed male with a generic dude name like 'Doug', and even he preferred the ambiguous 'they'. I believe that this entire concotion of modern gender theory fused with HR nannying is for his benefit, not poor people across the pond struggling with language barriers.
DTulpa
5mo ago
It's schizophrenic. It's always going to be seen as tawdy and low-brow, and earnest arguments that its consumption is sexually healthy ring hollow to most ears. At the same time, my weekly news feed seems to regularly drop an article or two about 'empowered porn stars and all their money' or 'a porn star was invited for a school book reading and incels can't handle it'. Few people want to be porn stars or would recommend it as a career, but there's a reflexive defensiveness against anybody who might ask 'what special qualifications does this whore have to read to my 5th grader?'. There's also 'former porn star, despite being forewarned, has trouble getting a normie job after exiting and isn't that so unfair'.
Hardcore straight porn is ugh the worst, but exploring your mommy kink with roleplay and bizarre anal insertions for the viewing pleasure of strangers is both normal and an exotic frontier you should explore assuming you're not close-minded. No, there is no sense to be made from this.
DTulpa
5mo ago
I'm a little surprised you didn't also go for "Everybody knows Biden is super sharp behind closed doors".
If you or your mother are displaying with regularity the same 'symptoms' that Biden does with increased frequency - at age 30 or 50 - I would be worried about mine and my own's well-being. I am getting flashbacks to the article written by a 30-something male about how RBG's workout routine nearly killed him, and then she croaked not long after.
DTulpa
5mo ago
I had a hazy memory of the beginning of that film for decades since watching it with my dad in the early 90s. Stuck with me for years, and only recently was I able to find out the name of it.
Remember absolutely nothing else, so you're probably that right that the rest was meh.
DTulpa
5mo ago
I think part of it is exposure. Obviously I had genre preferences I actively sought out when I was younger, but the general media landscape would give you a more balanced diet of different types of music. There were popular Rock songs, Rap songs, Country songs as well as obvious Pop hits. I'm sure Country has also gone downhill, but it was kinda easier for me to turn my nose up at it as a selective kid/teen.
Now that it seems everything is so heavily Rap dominated, I've kinda made a peace with other genres (like Metal, even). Like, please play anything that doesn't have that monotone rhythmic cadence and that fucking repetitive stuttering hi-hat trick! I know that's supposed to be a 'trap' thing, but Lord it seems to show up everywhere in influence. Please stop putting it in so many soundtracks and trailers where literally any other choice of music would be more appropriate.
I asked Google Home to play some 'easy listening' music and it defaulted to some midtempo mumbling rhyming about pussy sweat among other things. I am not a prude, and my own audio catalogue has its share of depravity. But come on. I want George Michael (sexual t-rex that he was), not this.
DTulpa
5mo ago
It's amazing what a 180 I've done on rap. True, there's a lot of artists and genres I listed to in my teens and early 20s that I've nearly dropped in the time since. I'm not without angst, but I can't really vibe along with Trent Reznor screaming about killing himself the way I used to, y'know. But I could still throw on an old NIN or Korn album for a long road trip and 'get into it' for a nostalgic romp with a friend or my brother.
I can't do Rap any more. I want it turned off immediately. I used to give Country a lot of shit for being unlistenable. And while I still think it's mostly shit, I have more tolerance for it now. It's like the polarities reversed.
I'm with you that my favorite Eminem was when he was young and funny. I think I liked the Slim Shady LP because it was so bizarre compared to The Chronic 2000 or whatever old Coolio album I had previously begged for because of 'Gangsta's Paradise'. Everything after that just felt too self-serious to me, like he had to prove something. TBF, I guess he had to. I can't argue with the man's career and success that followed with his maturation.
DTulpa
5mo ago
Chancellor Olaf Scholz posted on X, formerly Twitter, that he was “deeply grieved” and that the officer’s “commitment to the safety of us all deserves the highest recognition.”
...He was apprehending the stabbed man on the ground while ignoring the knife-weilding attacker that came back and put several holes in his head/neck. Without knowing any better, from the video it looks the officer (and his peers) were committed to the safety of Sulaiman right up until the worst, darkest case of ShockedPickachu.jpg I've seen from a video.
I do feel bad for the cops, alive and deceased. I can only imagine that their minds were so trained on the story and expectation of 'far right violence' that they literally could not process the images their eyes were sending upstream, and just assumed noise and commotion had to do with some Neo-Nazi provocation. But they still fucked up horribly. The dead cop did not die valiantly against a rogue gunman protecting innocent lives. Wether by personal failure or institutional instruction, he and his peers screwed the pooch hard and managed to make the situation worse, somehow.
I don't want to speak ill of the dead, nor do I feel the need to. And I know politicians are going to go for the standard lines. But the lionazation of the deceased in this instance makes me want to scream. If you didn't watch the video or read a detailed breakdown, and were left with just mainstram coverage and politicians' statements, you'd think some unidentified attacker just started stabbing people, the cops showed up, one died, but the day was ultimately saved by brave heroes.
That is not what fucking happened here, and anybody who wants to give that impression should.... Well, let's just say there are days I truly wish I believed in Hell.
DTulpa
5mo ago
If you don't want to have that argument for the sake of the mods, then bless your little heart! But then maybe don't act like you're doing a public service by refusing "to add fuel to conspiracy theories" for rhe benefit of some broader forum or general epistemic hygiene.
Despite your good intentions and best efforts here (I'm sure), your participation has probably already hardened and refueled said conspiracy theories. Seems like a failed strategy.
I'm not sure it's insufficient. Rolling over and playing nice certainly would be. Time will tell.
I stated my justifications and where I hope they end up, and you seem to think I actually don't believe them. Despite me having just written them out for you. Fine.
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